NEW R123 with safe chemistry

AW · #1 07-15-2006, 01:18 PM

These are new generation R123 with safe chemistry that will not vent with flames ( explode ). The key to this safety feature is that no oxygen will be released from the oxide structure of the cell composition even under abused conditions. No oxygen means no pressure built up and fuel for combustion. Can be used in series on multi-cell applications.

Specifications :

Nominal Voltage : 3.2V
Capacity : 500mAH
Lowest Discharge Voltage : 2.0V
Standard Charge : CC 250mA CV 3.6V
Cycle Life : > 500 cycles
Weight : 16.5g

Price : $6.00 each ( Shipping is $4.50 for up to six cells )

***You can also get the Combo deal for 2 cells + a charger for $23.00 / set ( Shipping is $5.50/set )

Registered mail w/ tracking is $3 extra. If you choose this option when your package is lost or gone missing, I 'll simply replace your order and it 'll be me to deal with the Post Office. Otherwise, I 'll not be responsible for lost packages during transit.

PayPal address : awwan01@yahoo.com

Specifications for charger:

- 2 Bay independent charging channel
- 250mA charging rate for each channel
- intelligient IC control with full auto-stop
- 4.2V / 3.6V selector for charging 3.7V and 3.0V LiIon cells ( the recessed switch is designed so you won't accidentially move the setting, you'll have to use a ball point pen or paper clip to change the setting manually )
- 100-240V worldwide voltage auto-switch CE and PSE approved

***Selector should be set to 3.0V for charging these LiFePO4 cells

Note: Do not discharge below 2V. Cells will be damaged when discharged below 2V.

Runtime test of these 3.2V cells on :

Fenix P1 - 40 minutes
TiPD UXOK - 32 minutes till flickering
KL1/VG-FB1 - 30 minutes

AW · #2 07-15-2006, 01:19 PM

Some tests :

1) water torture test : the PO4 R123 powers up a Lux I for 30 minutes under water without incident. I 'll examine the cell when it drys completely after 24 hours.

Discharge graph from 1C ( 0.5A ) to 10C ( 5A ) :

IsaacHayes · #3 07-15-2006, 02:19 PM

Cool beans! hehehe. Is this new technology going to show up in other sizes too?

JimH · #4 07-15-2006, 02:49 PM

AW, does the charger use "constant current"/"contstant voltage" method or just "constant current" like the DSD chargers.

AW · #5 07-15-2006, 02:55 PM

Jim,

The charger is a CC/CV charger.

AW

Spacemarine · #6 07-15-2006, 03:48 PM

How fast can they be discharged?

CroMAGnet · #7 07-15-2006, 04:04 PM

So the is no over-discharge protection. Will this be forth coming in near future?

Also can we use any of your other chargers?

BigBoy · #8 07-15-2006, 07:57 PM

I have been holding out for safer lithium cells... The logo on the charger and branding "UltraFire" - put a smile on my face. The marketing people don't always get it.

GarageBoy · #9 07-15-2006, 08:03 PM

3.2V x 2 means only 6.4V..can I use them in P60s, etc?

That_Guy · #10 07-15-2006, 08:07 PM

This is good news! As far as I can tell the cells are based on the same phosphate technology as the Valence Saphions (LiFePO4). Energy density is half that of normal li-ions. The voltage is lower than normal li-ions which normally would be a bad thing, but in this case can be a good thing because they can be used as a direct substitute for CR123A batteries in a much wider range of devices than standard R123s.

They should also be able to handle higher discharge rates than standard R123s, which means it may be possible to create high power USL-like "pocket rockets". Four or five in series should be able to handle a 12V 50W bulb without too much trouble, and maybe even a 100W bulb if you don't give a toss about abusing the heck out of your batteries and significantly reducing their cycle life.

ViReN · #11 07-15-2006, 09:23 PM

I believe this is a sales thread, however I have some queries. It would be great if Mod's could split this thread in to sales & information;

Now My Question: does this cell have a Protection circuit as with 'explosive' protected cells?

JonSidneyB · #12 07-15-2006, 09:28 PM

This could have been done long ago

cy · #13 07-15-2006, 09:42 PM

what's the mah rating for these cells? can these be charged with triton? trying to decide how many to get?

thanks,

Lips · #14 07-15-2006, 09:45 PM

Might be a good fit for the Gladius...

AW · #15 07-15-2006, 10:29 PM

Spacemarine : RC people have been discharging PO4 cells routinely up to 10C without any problem to the cells. However, I don't think you'll get much runtime out of these 500mAH cells.

CroMAGnet : these cells can be used without any protection circuit like NIMH cells. Even if they are overdischarged, they won't be hazardous.

BigBoy : the Ultrafire charger is the only affordable 3.6V charger I can find that will charge these cells. Or you can go for a $230 Schulze ISL 330D LiFe enabled charger.

GarageBoy : haven't tried them in a P6 yet. I believe the P6 is actually a 5V lamp so be careful.

That_Guy : correct.

ViRen : these cells will work just like other rechargeables ( NIMH, Nicad, Pb ) without the need of a protection circuit because they won't ' vent with flames '. The standard precaution of handling batteries still applies.

cy : 500mAH

Lips : they fit inside the gladius. As far as I know, the Gladius electronics will handle up to 7.2V so these cells will work ( a side note : these PO4 cells come offer the charger at 3.7V and will settle down to 3.3V in a few minutes ).

Archangel · #16 07-15-2006, 10:41 PM

By "lowest discharge voltage", do you mean "the lowest voltage they will produce" or "the lowest voltage we should let them be drained to"? I'm guessing it must be the latter if there's no circuit.

AW · #17 07-15-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel

By "lowest discharge voltage", do you mean "the lowest voltage they will produce" or "the lowest voltage we should let them be drained to"? I'm guessing it must be the latter if there's no circuit.

It is the lowest voltage that can be drained to without damge to the cells. If you accidentially goes lower than 2V and it recovers after rest, they are still good. I have tried draining them down to 1.5V and they recovers OK. I drained one further down to 0.5V and it was dead and wouldn't accept charge.

cy · #18 07-16-2006, 02:04 AM

triton has a 3.6V setting, will this work with new cells?

what is the working voltage range of these cells? voltage fully charged? to 2.0V?

sure would be sweet, if you could use 6x RS123 (saphion) in Surefire M6 pack?

thanks,

ciam · #19 07-16-2006, 02:11 AM

Could this charger charge your other types of 3.0V and 3.7V protected 123s?

By "Runtime test of these 3.2V cells on Fenix P1 yields about 40 minutes," do you mean 40 minutes to 50%, or to the point that it's not advisable to continue operation lest the cells might die?

Also, with a 10C discharging rate, does it mean that they could be used in essentially any settings including those incandescent light that draws large startup current?

AW · #20 07-16-2006, 02:20 AM

cy,

The Triton 3.6V setting is actually charging the cell up to 4.1V. The 3.7V setting is charging up to 4.2V for regular LiIon/ LiPo. I have tried charging these PO4 cells using the 4.2V setting up to 4.2V. The voltage will gradually settle down to 3.37V in about an hour. These cells will not be overcharged, however, routinely charging them above the recommended voltage will reduce their rated cycles.

Off the 3.6V charger, it reads 3.6V and will settle down to 3.37V ( fully charged ). Nominal voltage is 3.2V under load.

AW

AW · #21 07-16-2006, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciam

Could this charger charge your other types of 3.0V and 3.7V protected 123s?

By "Runtime test of these 3.2V cells on Fenix P1 yields about 40 minutes," do you mean 40 minutes to 50%, or to the point that it's not advisable to continue operation lest the cells might die?

This Ultrafire charger will charge regular protected / unprotected 3.7V R123s. It will not charge my 3.0V regulated / protected R123 which requires a 4.4V charger.

The 40 minutes runtime on a P1 is the point where I observed dimming. The moment I pulled the cell it reads 2.02V and climbing.

OldGreyGuy · #22 07-16-2006, 06:11 AM

AW, Thanks for all the great replies so far, this looks very interesting for those folks who have been concerned about Li-Ion chemistries and some of the reported venting incidents.

The only technical question I have is regarding the ability of these cells to hold their charge. Are they similar to Li-Ions and hold their charge or are they more like NiMH cells and have a fairly rapid standby discharge rate?

The sales question I have is if I order the package plus 2 extra cells how much will shipping be?

I also note that you have not put your paypal mail address at the top of the thread, I assume it is the same as in all your other threads?

Apart from that I like the type of charger that does not need a wall-wart.

Thanks: OldGreyGuy

AW · #23 07-16-2006, 07:07 AM

OldGreyGuy,

1) these cells will hold their charge like normal LiIon cells
2) shipping on the combo will be the same $5.50 with extra cells
3) PP address added. Thanks for reminding me :-)
4) this charger is the type you'd like - they don't have a wall-wart, just a connecting power cord.

AW

DFiorentino · #24 07-16-2006, 09:03 AM

Is this the beginning of seeing more sizes in this chemistry in the near future.

-DF

AW · #25 07-16-2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFiorentino

Is this the beginning of seeing more sizes in this chemistry in the near future.

-DF

I certainly do hope so if these move well

cy · #26 07-16-2006, 12:06 PM

still trying to figure how to charge these, without buying yet another charger...

may have to spring for the shultz and get it over with. thought I did that when I purchased triton.

bmstrong · #27 07-16-2006, 12:35 PM

Glorious!

Nell · #28 07-16-2006, 01:07 PM

I just saw the nail test on a r123 and it just exploded upon penetration and flamed out.

Are these the cells to eliminate all those safety issues with the old chemistry?

I would hate to invest in a whole new set of chargers and batteries again. I am surprised that no one came out with a charger set up for multi li-ion cells of various configeration, from the AAA to 18650 sizes. (hint,hint)

cy · #29 07-16-2006, 01:26 PM

AW, have you tried these in Surefire M6?

AW · #30 07-16-2006, 09:38 PM

Nell : I haven't tried the nail test myself but I believe these cells won't explode with the LiFePO4 chemistry. The accompanying charger will also charge regular 3.7V protected/unprotected cells.

cy : I haven't tried them in my M6 yet because I have modded my M6 to run a WA1111 and 6x17500. Even if they work, it 'll be only 6 minutes runtime on the MN21.