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  1. #1
    Flashaholic
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    Default What are you settings in the armytek predator?

    I'm still waiting for my neutral armytek predator to be sent, but I am interested to see how other people have their predator configured, and why they have choosen that configuration.

    The predator is such a customisable flashlight, I'm keen to see how people are using it.
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  2. #2
    Flashaholic CheepSteal's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are you settings in the armytek predator?

    I have my first line on 100% and 50% with no memory, so it will always come on 100% with the head tightened for "tactical" purposes. I then have the second line on 7 lumens, ~15%, 25% and military strobe with memory. I had firefly but I found that I don't use it often because it's too low, so I took it out of the rotation.
    On another note, I sanded and steel wooled the crap out of my bead blasted silver bezels and turned them into a nice shiny stainless steel

  3. #3
    Enlightened LightForce's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are you settings in the armytek predator?

    I added new firefly 1.5lm mode to the first line, and I raised low mode brightness a little bit. Now I have 4 modes in the first line - 1.5lm, 15lm, 100lm and 500lm. I still have two modes In the second line but I changed them for 0.1lm and second one which is something between 50% and 75% so I have ~1000mA mode. Both lines are memorised and FULL stabilised. I use 18650 cells only so FULL stabilisation is the way to go in this case. First line modes are in a good proportions with extended light levels possible. I like swithing to the firefly to the second line rather than switching the light off. Just look at the magics of these numbers:

    0.1
    1.5
    15
    100
    500

    Any other torch can't do this!
    For other side, ~350lm is good for fast bicycle trips in the night. It gives good proportion of light power and flat runtime.


  4. #4
    Enlightened LightForce's Avatar
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    Default The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks like?

    Dear Mods, please integrate hazna's and my thread to this one or to the earlier one.Thank you.

    As we know, there is a new manual to the updated version of Predator available from the yesterday. It comes together with cool, neutral and CRI90 versions, which are already in the way to the awaiting customers. I would like to briefly summarize what changed in the light construction and, especially, how User Interface changed. I want to do so, becouse I am the owner of both versions. Unfortunately, I lost earlier Predator in the mountains I immediately decided to buy another one after this lost.

    I get my light on last Monday morning. It was sent by DHL again, with EXTREMLY fast shipping from another end of the world - it was sent to me on Thursday evening.

    This is what it looks like:





    We can see new "G109.01" symbol on the body, which is, probably, the beginning of line of future ArmyTek's models of flashligts, for example G109.02 would be powerful XML thrower, G109.03 would be an EDC light etc. (I'm guessing)

    We can also see big and unnecessary information about the reflector angles written on the head. Instead of it, I would like to see a serial number or forum nickname here in the future.

    The special anodizing, known from previous version, is even better now - it's more "plushy", more matte, more grippy in touch, still very hard. This is good direction of the ArmyTek.

    We can see a notch on the flashlight's body under the clip's end. This prevents clip from sliding. The clip itself is made from slightly thicker sheet of steel, so it's more firmly now.

    The front glass is high quality optics with 2-sided AR coatings. It is advertised to have 98-99% of efficiency, and it can be true becouse the coatings looks similiar to the UCL in side by side comparison. They have green color, instead of UCL's blue. There is protective foil on the lens after purchase, similiar to the foil on the new mobile phone screen. It is very nice addition but it is somewhat hard to take off.

    The electronics section seems to be thicker now. Body-head threads section is shorter than in a previous Predator, the driver seats closer to the rear head opening, there is also small gap between the body and the head, that we can put thin oring there. Despite of that, threads have sufficient precision and the tolerances are tighter than previously.

    Unfortunately I don't have a photos of the head inside, but there is also one good improvement. The new groove on the reflector base prevents it from moving across the driver module. It caused spoils of the light beam in the previous version when you were pressing the glass or when the bezel wasn't screwed on very tightly. Please note that all of the guts in the head can be difficult to disassemble and reassemble, so I suggest you don't do this, becouse everything is just OK inside.

    Now, I will leave construction upgrades and focus on electronics functionality upgrades. There are some important changes:

    1. Decimal battery voltage indicator. Once selected, shows you battery voltage running on selected brightness mode by number of blinks.
    2. Added two new firefly modes. Now we have 0.1lm, 0.5lm and 1.5lm fireflies, which can be selected for both lines in brightness setup menu.
    3. Eliminated firefly pre-flash issue.
    4. There is a new, Custom mode. Third mode regime besides Military and Outdoor. User can save all of his settings to this regime and can use it whenever he wants, side by side with Military and Outdoor.
    5. Minimum possible constant brightness mode is lowered from 7 to 5lm in a constant brightness setup mode. Please note, that constant light modes which we can set in a ramping sequence are different modes than the fireflies. So we have 0.1lm, 0.5lm, 1.5lm and 5-500lm continnuum of constant light modes available.
    6. Strobo mode is placed behind constant brightness modes in mode setup order.
    7. Strobo frequency ramping in strobo setup is closer to the linear. There is more time to set high frequencies near 50Hz.
    8. Added three-blink warning when voltage or temperature range is exceeded.
    9. When voltage or temperature range is exceeded without any action from the user, the flaslight switch itself into 0.1lm firefly mode.
    10. Menu structure now is reorganised. ArmyTek claims that it's intuitive and user friendly reorganised. I intend to check it.

    Now let's talk about the new UI.

    We can enter the UI from the both lines. In the first line setup mode, we can adjust the brightness of previously selected first line constant light mode. In this setup, the flashlight shows a sequence of available constant modes. The first main difference between SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 is that we have access to the all of three fireflies modes in the first line. Immediately after entering the menu we will see this sequence:

    0.1lm firefly mode

    break
    0.5lm firefly mode

    break
    1.5lm firefly mode
    break
    5-500lm ramping sequence
    break
    sequence repeated
    etc.

    We can pause, resume, or repeat the sequence and abort or accept the choice which is described in the manual.

    It was all what we can do in the first line setup mode. Now will be presented the second line setup mode. The new second line menu has 5 positions in opposite of 7 position-menu from earlier version. I will write no more than you can read in the new official instruction but I think that different story about the same hero helps you to understand advanced programming capabilities of the updated Predator.

    SW 1.2 shorter menu with extended functionality required multilevel structure with order changes. I will describe it like a quide-through:

    1. SECOND LINE BRIGHTNESS SETUP MODE for the second line.
    Immediately after entering this menu position, the flashlight makes similiar sequence, as in the first line setup.

    This is how it looks like now:

    5lm constant light (submenu with firefly modes and constant light ramping sequence available)
    break
    strobo (submenu with strobe frequency ramping available)
    break
    beacon
    break
    SOS
    break
    sequence repeated
    etc.

    We can pause, resume, or repeat the sequence and abort or accept the choice which is described in the manual. We can enter the constant light ramping sequence by accepting choice of 5lm constant light. When we accept choice of the strobo, we will enter the strobo frequency ramping sequence. And yes, now it is way easier to set high strobo frequencies.

    Please note, when we abort actions from the submenus level, the flashlight will quits whole menu, not a given submenu only. It is good becouse user deffinitely knows that after one action he quit the menu completely, and he can use the flashlight quickly, until he decide to enter the setup again. We still cannot set any non-constant light modes in the first line.

    There is a hint. If you don't need to wait and count number of blinks in the main setup to determine which menu position you are entering, you can straight perform given quantity of quick off/on swithing and immediately accept choice by quick screwing/loosing the head. It's easy to remember five setup positions but all operations should be done clean, without any errors.

    2. RESET TO THE FACTORY DEFAULTS AND CUSTOM MODE

    In this second line setup menu position we can decide which regime of settings we want to use. Now, there is a submenu with three options. The flashlight will cycle through the submenu automatically and indicate as it follows:

    1 flash - Military
    2 flashes - Outdoor
    3 flashes - Custom

    By the default, the Custom position is empty (nothing will change after confirmation of this regime). Once user save his settings into this position - switch off/on the flashlight quickly - he can use his new settings whether we want by confirmation of this position - screwing/loosing the head quickly. Please remember not to mismatch this operations, you can't undo changes when you make a mistake.

    3. POWER SOURCE TYPE SELECTION

    One change here. Now we have 2.8V low cuttig voltage and 1x18650 power source set by default. There was 0V limit voltage set by default
    ealier. Unprotected rechargeables could end totally depleted if user had forgot set the proper low voltage limit. This menu position was on the 6th place in previous, SW 1.0 version.

    Why ArmyTek didn't want to throw power source selection to the lines independent configuration setup also? With such a possibilities, we would have two-in-one flashlight, which works optimal on 1x18650 and 2xRCR respectively, depending on which line of modes is being used. However, I think that it's disputable, becouse it's easy to forget in which line we are working with given cell quantity. It's also easy to change the line accidentially during the operating. All in all it's better with power source selection setup as the global flashlight's setup. But I can see some potential to utilize here.

    4. FIRST LINE ADVANCED SETUP
    We can adjust here any other settings for first line of the Predator G109.01. First and most important thing is that stabilization type selection
    now is available for both lines INDEPENDENTLY. Automemorization and stabilization type setup became the submenus of these settings. That's why we have 5 setup postions instead of 7. 4th and 5th setup position is two-level submenu now. It simplifies navigation through the menu. This is how the structure of first line advanced setup looks like:

    I - modes quantity selection
    We can set up to 10 modes in the first line. They will be added to the end of the list of modes. They also will be deleting from the end of the list if user choose less modes than before. Isn't it better to have new modes adding/deleting after the mode we set before entering the menu?

    As the all selected submenus cycles through automatically, we have to wait quite long for 10x flashing indicating 10 modes quantity. Good that we can restart the sequence of any submenu at any time with quick switching the flashlight off/on. Traditionally, we can enter all submenus by accepting the choice.

    II - automemorization function enabled/disabled
    There is the two-position second level submenu:

    1 flash - mode memorization enabled
    2 flashes - mode memorization disabled.

    III - stablization type selection
    We have three submenu position in this second level:

    1 flash - full stabilization
    2 flashes - semi stabilization
    3 flashes - stepped stabilization

    5. SECOND LINE ADVANCED SETUP
    Everything we can find here is a copy from previous setup position but it applies to the second line only. We can choose second line modes quantity, automemorization settings and type of stabilization in the second line. One difference is that we can set maximum 5 brightness modes in the second line.

    THE CHERRY ON THE CAKE!

    Do you know that your new Predator can measure battery voltage? Do you know, that it can do it for any brightness mode you want? Do you want to know how to do it?

    First, turn the flashlight on and set desired mode,
    next, unscrew the tailcap,
    next, get the battery out, measure it with voltmeter and here it is!
    It's a joke!


    In fact it's a new, helpful feature. Sometimes I don't know which battery I grabbed from the shelf into the torch. When there is a freezing cold, I would also want to know what happens to my 18650 when it produce 5W of power.

    BATTERY VOLTAGE INDICATOR ACTIVATION:

    This feature can be launched just from normal operating mode, not from the setup level.

    Depends on what line you are, please screw or loose the head and wait for the line changing,
    immediately after that do opposite - loose or screw the head again and wait again for returning to the previous line,
    immediately after that, do quick screwing/loosing or loosing/screwing action just like you want to change the modes in this line,
    immediately after that quickly turn the flashlight off/on.

    You should be very quick!

    In the next 3 seconds the flashlight will measure the voltage on the mode selected ealier and then will start flashing with the flashes of measured mode brightness. Despite that we can launch this function on firefly modes also, it can't perform voltage measurement for the firefly modes unfortunately. It will do it for lowest non-firefly mode. The quantity of flashes will inform you about the cell voltage under load. There is one decimal place after coma, the flashlight "makes" a coma with pause between series of flashes. For example:

    three flashes
    break
    two flashes

    __________
    = 3.2 volts.


    After measurment, just turn the flashlight off for more than 1 second to return to the standard operation.

    This is all about UI changes between SW 1.0 and 1.2. As we can see, the structure moves to the more intuitive side. After intensive testing I found that I learned whole menu and don't need the manual to set the entire functionality.

    Next step should be PC programming interface and miniUSB socket inside of the Predator's head. Combined with magnetic ring control which can be independent from first-second line head functionality, bring us real flashlight of the tomorrow.

    What I would like to have improved? Well. Most of the functionality of updated Predator is a top-notch. UI brings you great control over the flashlight performance. But it can be extended further. How?

    1. There should be non-linear current vs. time function of constant brightness setup mode (ramping sequence). Brightness should increase more logarythmically. It would give more resolution of low modes. ArmyTek have already been working on changes of constant modes ramping sequence.
    2. Battery voltage indicator could be done on firefly modes also. It might have an option to measure true cell resting voltage. There is a problem that true cell resting voltage require a few minutes of no any current draw to compensate the voltage sag under the load so I don't know if it's possible with existing measuring shedule. We can simulate such a measurement in an actual Predator - what we should do is to switch to lowest modes in both lines, turn the light off, wait a few minutes, switch in the lowest mode and enter the battery indicator feature. The current draw and voltage sag will be minimal.
    3. Battery voltage indicator should have 2 decimal places of resolution. There is a significant difference between 3.75 and 3.84V in a Li-Ion 18650 cell condition - I think actual indicator will show 3.8V in both cases. Second decimal place could be signalized with 2x shorter flash than the first one. Technically it's posiible to do.
    4. The function which allows quick flip first and second line modes and settings.
    5. Adding and deleting modes right after one which is selected before menu entering. When we want add a new mode between modes with acceptable brightness and when we don't want to spend 20 minutes on changing every mode before mode we had already added.
    6. Self timer. Why not? When I am biking I might switch such a feature on and, for example, every one minute the flashlight will show me with quantity of short blinks how much time it has already been switched on. For example, 10 minutes - 1 blink, 20 minutes - 2 blinks etc., 1 hour - 1 long blink, 1 hour and 10 mninutes - 1 long blink and 1 short blink, 3 hours - 3 long blinks...
    7. GPS transmitter, shaver and radio built in? Ok, joke.

    Let's go and write what is your custom preset and why?
    This is NOT Google translation, I'm sorry if I made the mistakes and I hope that everything is easy to understand.

    Good luck in your ArmyTek Predator G109.01 programming!
    Last edited by LightForce; 06-11-2011 at 11:00 PM.


  5. #5
    Flashaholic CheepSteal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Very cool info on the new predator, great job! I kind of wish I waited a little while for the new version, although I agree with you on the logos on the head quite unnecessary, I prefer my CAUTION: HOT SURFACE

  6. #6
    Flashaholic
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    nice review of the new UI, lightforce!

    This is what I am thinking for my predator 1.2

    First line (4.2V battery, full stabilisation, memory) - 0.5 lumen, 10-15 lumen, ~30-40%
    Second line (4.2V battery, full stabilisation, no memory) - 100%, 75%, Slow strobe

    I will probably used this mainly with 4.2V li-ion batteries. I prefer full stabilisation, I like a steady and consistent output. There is now a battery voltage function, which gives me an indication on how much battery power is still left. I do not need to rely on tapering output to indicate how much power is left in the battery.

    I prefer instant access to high (100%) when needed, that is why I have put first mode in a selection line where is no memory. For times when I need a bright light but slightly longer runtime, there is the 75% option as well.

    I also prefer to have the strobed tucked away towards the end of a sequence where there is no memory. If strobe where in a line with memory, you would constantly have to cycle past it. I prefer a strobe that is slower. If I were to use strobe, it would be more for signalling and drawing attention to myself, rather than 'disorientating' an attacker. I find fast strobe cool for annoying your friends, but I don't have much use for it (YMMV)

    In the first line I am trying to get a good combination of outputs levels for various 'non-high' usages. I don't mind having memory in this line. In an output line with memory, I'd prefer not to have more than 3 modes. Too many modes means too much stuff to cycle through.

    Strobe/beacon/sos is only available in the second line, hence that is why I moved the high modes there too. Given a choice, I would prefer to swap around my first and second lines. It's more intuitive for me to have my high modes in a 'head tightened' position... as this is similar to the fenix lXd/ldX0 and quark series
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  7. #7
    ArmyTek's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by LightForce View Post
    THE CHERRY ON THE CAKE!
    Excellent job!
    We are under the impression.

    Quote Originally Posted by LightForce View Post
    1. There should be non-linear current vs. time function of constant brightness setup mode (ramping sequence). Brightness should increase more logarythmically. It would give more resolution of low modes. ArmyTek have already been working on changes of constant modes ramping sequence.
    Yes.

    2. Battery voltage indicator could be done on firefly modes also.
    There is almost no difference with voltage for Firefly modes and 15mA mode. For example, you will measure 3.7V for both modes.

    3. Battery voltage indicator should have 2 decimal places of resolution. There is a significant difference between 3.75 and 3.84V in a Li-Ion 18650 cell condition - I think actual indicator will show 3.8V in both cases. Second decimal place could be signalized with 2x shorter flash than the first one. Technically it's posiible to do.
    We were duscussing that before. There are 3 points for "long" indication like "3.78V":
    1) This indication is too long. Faster speed can bring a mistake for user during calculation of flashes.
    2) Actual batteries have usually flat runtimes, then 3.75V and 3.84V do not say to the user something useful about the rest of power.
    3) The user can get different battery voltage for different modes, for example: maximal mode - 3.4V, minimal mode - 3.9V. This difference is much bigger than a mistake in the second number after decimal point.

    4. The function which allows quick flip first and second line modes and settings.
    Hmm, possible. When it could be useful?

    5. Adding and deleting modes right after one which is selected before menu entering. When we want add a new mode between modes with acceptable brightness and when we don't want to spend 20 minutes on changing every mode before mode we had already added.
    We planed to do similar idea before. That should be discussed more deep.
    There were some ideas like that:
    1) When you want to delete the mode - you will choose it, enter to the Setup Menu, change the quanity of modes (minus 1 to the actual quantity). Selected mode will be deleted.
    2) When you want to add the mode - you will choose the mode which will be before new mode, enter to the Setup Menu, change the quanity of modes (plus 1 to the actual quantity). New mode will be added after actual one.

    6. Self timer. Why not? When I am biking I might switch such a feature on and, for example, every one minute the flashlight will show me with quantity of short blinks how much time it has already been switched on. For example, 10 minutes - 1 blink, 20 minutes - 2 blinks etc., 1 hour - 1 long blink, 1 hour and 10 mninutes - 1 long blink and 1 short blink, 3 hours - 3 long blinks...
    Ok, we'll think about it.

    Thank you for your suggestions!
    Last edited by ArmyTek; 06-12-2011 at 05:17 AM.

  8. #8
    Enlightened LightForce's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyTek View Post
    Excellent job!
    We are under the impression.
    Thank you.

    There is almost no difference with voltage for Firefly modes and 15mA mode. For example, you will measure 3.7V for both modes.
    Agreed. There is ~0,002V of difference between no load and 15mA load on regular 18650 cell.

    Actual batteries have usually flat runtimes, then 3.75V and 3.84V do not say to the user something useful about the rest of power.
    I'm different point of view. It says everything you want to know about your 18650.
    Just look at the tables with open cell voltages of the Li-Ion cell:

    http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/4189

    There is a significant difference between 25% and 55% of capacity, isn't it? You can measure it on 15mA mode easily. If I were here when you were discussing that...

    When want to enter battery voltage indicator, you can make one switch off/on action for entering one-decimal place measurement and two fast switch on/off actions for advanced precise metering. I'm certain that everyone who wants to admire 2-decimal measurement flashes of 3,99V for half an hour will be fast and patient enough to perform double click off/on whilst entering to the battery indicator function.

    Hmm, possible. When it could be useful?
    You can operate in the second line not only with twists of the head but just pulling it to the body as well. The spring tension and threads tolerance allow to quick contact-release action between the body and second contact ring on the electronics module when the head is loosened a bit. It helps to change modes quickly in the second line without threads and contact area wear damage. It is very comfortable to operate. As I observed, It is not 100% reliable operating shedule in the Predator, but it can be improved in the XM-L version. Quick flip can give us an opportunity of using this operating feature of mode changing for the first line setup also. Alternatively, you can consider single modes migration between the lines.

    1) When you want to delete the mode - you will choose it, enter to the Setup Menu, change the quanity of modes (minus 1 to the actual quantity). Selected mode will be deleted.
    2) When you want to add the mode - you will choose the mode which will be before new mode, enter to the Setup Menu, change the quanity of modes (plus 1 to the actual quantity). New mode will be added after actual one.
    I am completely agreed with that.

    Ok, we'll think about it.
    Just wow. That's what I can say.
    Last edited by LightForce; 06-12-2011 at 06:21 AM.


  9. #9
    ArmyTek's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by LightForce View Post
    I'm different point of view. It says everything you want to know about your 18650.
    Just look at the tables with open cell voltages of the Li-Ion cell:

    http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/4189

    There is a significant difference between 25% and 55% of capacity, isn't it? You can measure it on 15mA mode easily. If I were here when you were discussing that...

    When want to enter battery voltage indicator, you can make one switch off/on action for entering one-decimal place measurement and two fast switch on/off actions for advanced precise metering. I'm certain that everyone who wants to admire 2-decimal measurement flashes of 3,99V for half an hour will be fast and patient enough to perform double click off/on whilst entering to the battery indicator function.
    We were discussing that there: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...99#post2603799

    Thanks for comments. I can add something to the previous 3 points
    ...
    4) The difference of measured battery voltage for high current modes and low current modes is big enough, for example, 3.9-3.4V = 0.5V. It is more than 0.09V and it makes the understanding by user a little complicated ("how long time will work the flashlight if the voltage in this actual mode is 3.75V and 3.84V?").
    5) Different Li-Ion batteries from different producers will have different runtimes and the user doesn't know exactly these table data. He can guess only.
    6) The type of Li-Ion charging and the life time of actual exemplar - will bring new values of voltage.

    That is why we can't add percent for the rest of power. It's more user friendly to indicate the rest of power like 24% or 87%. But the batteries are different and it is compicated to calculate this percent automatically.

    "Double click" for extra precise indication - good idea.

    You can operate in the second line not only with twists of the head but just pulling it to the body as well. The spring tension and threads tolerance allow to quick contact-release action between the body and second contact ring on the electronics module when the head is loosened a bit. It helps to change modes quickly in the second line without threads and contact area wear damage. It is very comfortable to operate. As I observed, It is not 100% reliable operating shedule in the Predator, but it can be improved in the XM-L version. Quick flip can give us an opportunity of using this operating feature of mode changing for the first line setup also. Alternatively, you can consider single modes migration between the lines.
    That is possible when the threads tolerance is bigger. We'll have new problems because of it.
    Last edited by ArmyTek; 06-12-2011 at 08:39 AM.

  10. #10
    Enlightened LightForce's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyTek View Post
    That is why we can't add percent for the rest of power. It's more user friendly to indicate the rest of power something like 24% or 87%. But the batteries are different and it is compicated to calculate this percent automatically.
    I'm also against percentage indication and I don't know where did you get this idea from. The decimal voltage indicator is just the way to go. The table I posted link to is just to show how flat Li-Ion discharging voltage curve is in the middle-low of the runtime graph. This is why more precision measurement is needed.

    According to your point 4), the user should learn from the flashlight manual what the resting voltage is, he should see this table with V and % inside, and learn how to measure the resting voltage correctly in a Predator. And everything will be OK. The resting voltage is the most important thing becouse it is reliable. The voltage difference under load on different modes is for further information about cell discharging conditions.

    We deffinitely need some of the battery-guru here to comment our dispute.

    BTW cell resting voltage at a given percentage of discharge state is similiar for any kind, capacity, manufacturer and age of Li-Ion cell.

    You don't need to calculate any percents in the CPU. Every user knows what capacity cell is using - everything he should to do is just measure the voltage accurately, read it from the torch voltage indicator flashes and look at the table I linked.

    "Double click" for extra precise indication - good idea.
    It is easy to integrate to the UI and this extra functionality won't disturb anyone who don't want to use it.

    That is possible when the threads tolerance is bigger. We'll have new problems because of it.
    I know that there will be some drawback, thus this is Time for the Magnetic Ring.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by LightForce View Post
    I don't know where did you get this idea from.
    And what is about mobile phones, notebooks, chargers?

    According to your point 4), the user should learn from the flashlight manual what the resting voltage is, he should see this table with V and % inside, and learn how to measure the resting voltage correctly in a Predator. And everything will be OK. The resting voltage is the most important thing becouse it is reliable. The voltage difference under load on different modes is for further information about cell discharging conditions.
    ...
    You don't need to calculate any percents in the CPU. Every user knows what capacity cell is using - everything he should to do is just measure the voltage accurately, read it from the torch voltage indicator flashes and look at the table I linked.
    The table is for low current modes, roughly. Percentage indication is one-step action: the user got it - no need to do anymore.

    BTW cell resting voltage at a given percentage of discharge state is similiar for any kind, capacity, manufacturer and age of Li-Ion cell.
    Japan's quality of Li-Ion is not equal to xxxxxfire quality. The possibilities and runtimes are very different. Then the prices are different and the trust to these brands. Otherwise why we need to pay more?

    It is easy to integrate to the UI and this extra functionality won't disturb anyone who don't want to use it.
    I think, yes.

    thus this is Time for the Magnetic Ring.
    Last edited by ArmyTek; 06-12-2011 at 10:14 AM.

  12. #12
    Enlightened LightForce's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyTek View Post
    And what is about mobile phones, notebooks, chargers?
    These are way different devices from the torch. They all use fixed-battery arrangement so percentage OCV based battery level indicator is valid in these cases. They "take" this percents from one particular battery. What is more, these all devices, as internally charged, can use Culoumb-counter based battery indicator which is the most accurate out there. In the percentage and Culomb-counter fuel gauges power received from the charger is always equal with power given to the device.

    In the Predator will be used many types of the batteries charged externally everywhere, and power received will never be equal with power used. We simply can't use percentage indicator. Why? How will we find and remember percents for LiFePo batteries or primary lithiums? Instead of this we could measure up to 0,01V accurately 15mA mode to get 5% accuracy estimated by ourself from that table for the most popular Li-Ion chemistry.

    Who don't want to learn whole table and who want just check some of the cell voltage, can perform only one click off/on action while entering to the battery voltage indicator. This kind of user will be able to measure 15-1500mA various mode voltages under different load with 0,1V accuracy for comfortable readout.

    On the other side, who likes to calculate 5% accurately his flashlight's runtime everytime before he falls asleep, can click off/on twice and get one space after coma extra - two in one benefit. You have just incorporated truly unique and helpful feature to your flashlight, so you should use all of its potential and capabilities.

    OCV = Open Cell Voltage = resting voltage.


    Japan's quality of Li-Ion is not equal to xxxxxfire quality. The possibilities and runtimes are very different. Then the prices are different and the trust to these brands. Otherwise why we need to pay more?
    We pay more for solid voltage performance under high load. We pay more for high current drain possible. We pay more for no capacity loss under high power conditions. We pay more for massive runtime in freezing cold. We pay more for long lifetime and 100% reliablility. We pay more for the Safety.

    We also pay more for the same resting cell vs. discharge state graph as this is the same chemistry.
    Last edited by LightForce; 06-12-2011 at 11:15 AM.


  13. #13
    ArmyTek's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by LightForce View Post
    These are way different devices from the torch. They all use fixed-battery arrangement so percentage OCV based battery level indicator is valid in these cases. They "take" this percents from one particular battery.
    Of course. That is the answer on question - about 'percentage indication' idea. And that is why we realized the decimal indication without percentage.

    On the other side, who likes to calculate 5% accurately his flashlight's runtime everytime before he falls asleep, can click off/on twice and get one space after coma extra - two in one benefit. You have just incorporated truly unique and helpful feature to your flashlight, so you should use all of its potential and capabilities.
    ...
    We also pay more for the same resting cell vs. discharge state graph as this is the same chemistry.
    Reasonably. And the second number after decimal point is for expensive chemistry only.

  14. #14
    Enlightened LightForce's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    I have another idea of two-level depth battery level indicator, but it will require much of the CPU memory. I think that it is better than 2-decimal places measurements.

    In a first level, just like in existing SW 1.2, user can just measure one decimal place resolution voltage of the cell.
    In a second level (one more switching off/on), we could have these percents we have talked about earlier but with some improvements like this:
    We should create tables with 10% resolution for any kind of Li chemistries (except fot LiFePo4 becouse it's totally flat), and match proper resting voltages to these percent values in an experiments. Then, save it to the non-volatile memory. It should be linked with voltage source type which we can choose from #3 of second line settings. and any table will be linked automatically to the given chemistry actually being used. After second-level battery indicator activation, the flashlight will show percents by number of flashes - 10 flashes - 100%, 9 flashes - 90%, ..., 3 flashes - 30% etc. Please note that it should be done on 15mA mode only. This would be advanced, powerful, hybrid and fully informative feature.

    Isn't it brilliant?
    Last edited by LightForce; 06-12-2011 at 02:44 PM.


  15. #15
    ArmyTek's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by LightForce View Post
    I have another idea of two-level depth battery level indicator, but it will require much of the CPU memory. I think that it is better than 2-decimal places measurements.
    ...
    Isn't it brilliant?
    Very good idea.
    There is one special thing: Panasonic NCR 2900mAh without PCB will work till 2.5V, then it's logically to setup the type of power source like LiFePO4 with 2.5V minimal voltage.

  16. #16
    Enlightened LightForce's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    So I understand that they cover itself unnecessary? If yes, we can set the Panasonic NCR line of cells to work till 2.6V to distinguish it from LiFePo4 chemistry. 0,1V makes almost no capacity difference in steep end-of-discharge curve of Panasonic NCR.

    We will have here 3 tables for Li-Ions:

    1. Standard cobalt anode Li-Ions type curve (4.2V/2.8V)
    2. Panasonic NCR type curve (4.2V/2.6V)
    3. Samsung 30A type curve (4.35V/3.0V)

    And one table for 2xCR123A primaries

    When we combine such a capabilities with PC-programmed interface and USB connection, we can update this properities via internet.

    I think that there will be much work for you if you're gonna like my ideas.

    Is there a need for rare 2xRCR setup?
    Last edited by LightForce; 06-12-2011 at 02:59 PM.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    I agree with armytek on this one. I feel voltage indicator to one decimal place provides enough of an estimation of battery power remaining. Two decimal places would provide more accuracy, but may take too long.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Awesome Explanation!!
    Helped me a lot!!

  19. #19
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by hazna View Post
    I agree with armytek on this one. I feel voltage indicator to one decimal place provides enough of an estimation of battery power remaining. Two decimal places would provide more accuracy, but may take too long.
    +1. Unless you're a trained morse-code operator, you might find it confusing to count AND remember all the digits.
    I'm not afraid of the dark, I love it. I just need to see where the heck I'm going so I can get there... and play with my other flashlights.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* okwchin's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    1) THANKS ARMYTEK for putting in the battery meter functionality in!! A Truly awesome company for listening and acting upon the comments of the community! I never expected that it would happen and here it is in my hands right now!

    Thanks.. Now for some more thoughts..


    2) I like the idea of having the double power click to get the 3 significant figure (2 decimal place) voltage readout. It combines the best of both worlds.

    When we were discussing the incorporation of the battery meter in the first place (link to individual post), It was split between having a 1 decimal and 2 decimal places. I would have liked a 2 decimal readout being the geek I am, but in the interests of general usability, it was concluded that a 2 s.f. readout would provide sufficient resolution (about 6-8 units) without being excessively long (imagine reading out 7.99v = 25 flashes!) = half a minute

    Having the option for 2 and 3 s.f. would be great! I really like that idea, and would like to see that in future builds.


    3) Handling of Zeros in the battery meter. Currently its no light. I would prefer if the zero would be indicated as a dash (a longer flash) so that we can know that its reading out a value. Lets say for example the voltage is 4.0 This wolud read as

    . dot dot dot dot . delay delay delay . dot dot dot dot . delay delay delay . dot dot dot dot......

    Which can be read as 4.4 as opposed to 4.0 because of the delay for the zero, which is loonger, but potentialyl confusing. I would recommend a dash so it looks like.

    . dot dot dot dot . delay . daaashhh . delay delay . dot dot dot dot . delay . daaashhh . delay delay . dot dot dot dot......



    4) And after trying to set-up modes, I would still like to see strobe mode availability in the first line.


    5) Infact.. I just really really really want a magnetic ring setup... Waterproofing the ring will be interesting though... how to prevent dust/sand/rubbish getting under the ring. The ring can be external to the torch (like the sunwayman V10R) but it doesnt stop it gunking up.
    Last edited by okwchin; 06-14-2011 at 09:20 PM.
    WTB - V10R Ti and a Kuku 18650 tube

  21. #21

    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    So ArmyTek, what options do you currently or are you going to have in the near future for lights? This new version of the predator and what else? and when?

  22. #22
    ArmyTek's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by DivineStrike View Post
    So ArmyTek, what options do you currently or are you going to have in the near future for lights? This new version of the predator and what else? and when?
    http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...=1#post2670981
    http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...=1#post2670988
    http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...=1#post2671015

  23. #23
    ArmyTek's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by okwchin View Post
    1) THANKS ARMYTEK for putting in the battery meter functionality in!! A Truly awesome company for listening and acting upon the comments of the community! I never expected that it would happen and here it is in my hands right now!

    Thanks.. Now for some more thoughts..
    Thank you so much!

    2) I like the idea of having the double power click to get the 3 significant figure (2 decimal place) voltage readout. It combines the best of both worlds.
    ...it was concluded that a 2 s.f. readout would provide sufficient resolution (about 6-8 units) without being excessively long (imagine reading out 7.99v = 25 flashes!) = half a minute

    Having the option for 2 and 3 s.f. would be great! I really like that idea, and would like to see that in future builds.
    We need to make a research on it. As I remember, there are more errors during the measurement of battery voltage with 2 decimal numbers after point because of ADC noice.
    Personally I like the idea with more friendly percentage (for example, 57% of the rest). Color LED for visualization is welcome.

    3) Handling of Zeros in the battery meter. Currently its no light. I would prefer if the zero would be indicated as a dash (a longer flash) so that we can know that its reading out a value. Lets say for example the voltage is 4.0 This wolud read as

    . dot dot dot dot . delay delay delay . dot dot dot dot . delay delay delay . dot dot dot dot......

    Which can be read as 4.4 as opposed to 4.0 because of the delay for the zero, which is loonger, but potentialyl confusing. I would recommend a dash so it looks like.

    . dot dot dot dot . delay . daaashhh . delay delay . dot dot dot dot . delay . daaashhh . delay delay . dot dot dot dot......
    There is a longer pause after "4", which delivers the meaning about "0" after "4".
    I can say in the same way: when we'll place a longer flash, then I can read it like "4.1Volts", but not "4.0Volts". Am I close?

    4) And after trying to set-up modes, I would still like to see strobe mode availability in the first line.
    Do you like to add the Setup Menu in the First Line? We proposed more friendly and simplest brightness modes only.

    5) Infact.. I just really really really want a magnetic ring setup... Waterproofing the ring will be interesting though... how to prevent dust/sand/rubbish getting under the ring. The ring can be external to the torch (like the sunwayman V10R) but it doesnt stop it gunking up.
    Can you say more about it? We plan to do an external ring.

  24. #24
    Enlightened LightForce's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    I also vote on "0" which is indicated with long pause.

    I was discussing second-level battery indicator conception with our country designers on our forum. I believe more and more that the percent indication is better choice for second level. You see that I'm changed my opinion, though. Why? becouse it will be simplier for the user than long 3-digits readout. But this conception has some requirements to be correct for the flashlight:

    1. Voltage measuring in second-level battery indicator should be allowed only on lowest mode possible, or on no current at all, as we have to measure open cell voltage only.
    2. You should create experimentally open cell voltages tables for different cell types (they are proposed earlier by me), and permanently save it in the flashlight's memory. The tables are, as an example below:

    Standard Lithium-Ion cell
    80% = 4,01V
    70% = 3,94V
    60% = 3,88V
    50% = 3,82V
    40% = 3,79V
    30% = 3,78V
    20% = 3,74V
    10% = 3,69V

    3. There should be tables with open cell voltages for these kinds of cells:

    Standard Li-Ions type (4.2V/2.8V)
    Panasonic NCR type (4.2V/2.6V)
    Samsung 30A type (4.35V/3.0V)
    2xCR123A Primaries
    Doubled voltages from table #1 for 2xRCRV3 setup.

    There is no table for LiFePo4 and no second-level available for it at all. Becouse of flat discharge voltage curve fo LiFePo4.

    4. It should be indicated as 80% = 8 blinks, 50% = 5 blinks, 10% = 1 blink etc. For every 10% step there should be one blink. So there will be 8 bits.

    I missed 100%, 90% and 0% bits, becouse it is unncessary in my opinion. You don't need to signalize full capacity (over 80%), becouse expected runtime is long and 10 blinks is also long to read out. You ralely would have almost full battery. There is also no need of signalizing 0%, becouse how? No blink? Is the flashlight broken that it's not blinking? Battery will be empty.

    5. Each table should be connected with battery type selected in the flashlight's settings. So, you are choosing your battery type, and there is a particular table for it automatically. There should be added an submenu in 18650 Li-Ion position, for 3 types of 18650 cell's which are above.

    6. The readout should be signalized with blinks (like a second line main menu - the light is pulsating), not with the flashes (like a submenu - the light goes on/off). There will be no confusions between first level and second level of battery indicator feature.

    It is complete, 100% functional and legit, precise capacity measuring. Again, it doesn't depend on a cell brand, age and temperature, becouse it's an open cell voltage. That all, combined with 1-decimal voltage under load measuring in the first level of battery indicator will be an epic feature. It depends if you will have enough CPU power for it.
    Last edited by LightForce; 06-15-2011 at 11:32 AM.


  25. #25
    Enlightened Cataract's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    I like the idea of measuring the battery as a percentage. Actually, it would be nice to have an option to set the voltage reading either as voltage or a percentage to make everyone happy. Then again, too many options mean we'll need a reminder of all the menus as big as the instruction booklet itself.
    I'm not afraid of the dark, I love it. I just need to see where the heck I'm going so I can get there... and play with my other flashlights.

  26. #26
    ArmyTek's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    Quote Originally Posted by LightForce View Post
    I also vote on "0" which is indicated with long pause.
    Sure?

    Samsung 30A type (4.35V/3.0V)
    How many guys use it? How many guys know it?

    will be an epic feature
    If so, then we can make percentage indication on the first level and decimal indication on the second level.

    Very good solutions.

  27. #27
    Enlightened Cataract's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    To answer the op's question of how I programmed my Predator (I'd like to know about others too):
    1st line:
    -7 lumen
    -25%
    -50%
    -100%
    -75%

    I really like it because this gets you get to 100% output quickly and even if you're a little nervous (or forgot which mode you last used), you still have the 75% that will keep you from getting stuck in the dark while starting over. I also think it was a wise choice, since you might need the strong light for more than a few minutes (let's just say you heard a bear) and you might not feel like going through all the modes again just to pick a slightly lower setting to prevent the overheating protection to kick in. The other plus is that it gets you from minumum to 100% with seemingly equal steps.

    2nd line:
    For now I have Firefly and 4 different speeds of strobes from ~6 Hz to full speed.
    I'm not afraid of the dark, I love it. I just need to see where the heck I'm going so I can get there... and play with my other flashlights.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    You can do constant brightness in the 2nd line on the new models correct? If I get one, I was planning something like....
    1st line:
    -100%
    -~50%

    2nd line:
    -Firefly
    -5%
    -10%
    -----keep ramping, flashy modes, etc.

  29. #29
    Flashaholic CheepSteal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    You could always do constant brightness on the 2nd line, but the menu setting was just inconvenient because you'd have to cycle through the strobe/firefly/beacon/SOS first before you reach that setting. What I actually wanted recently was being able to put strobe mode in the first line. I would have put:
    First line: 100% , fast strobe, 50% (no memory on this line)
    Second line: firefly, 7 lum, 15%, 25% (with memory)
    That way for a "tactical" situation, you could get full brightness with head tightened, then very quickly cycle to strobe without having to wait a second.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: The differences between UI SW 1.0 and SW 1.2 what is YOUR Custom preset looks lik

    I received my predator yesterday, I haven't had too much time with it but I think I might have come across a bug in the software. I was able to alter the various modes in the second line when there was the default 'memorisation' of modes.

    I turned off the memorisation feature, but since then I do not seem to be able to alter all the various modes I have set in the second line (3 modes). Only the first mode in the sequence can be changed, the second and third mode in the non-memorisation sequence can not be changed.

    E.g. If I try to change the 2nd or 3rd mode of the sequence, it instead changes the first mode and the 2nd/3rd mode stays the same.

    I've only had this light for one night, so I'll be playing around with it a bit more to confirm the bug. Has anyone else noticed, or can replicate this problem?
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