People that don't trust you but want you trust them

[curtispdx]

It's happened to me twice now: people that won't send their light until they receive mine first.

Am I making too much of this? It's as if they don't trust me but want me to trust them.

On one trade, I wasn't made aware of the stipulation until after I already had my light in the mail. (Not sure I would have made the trade had I known in advance just based on principle alone.)

I probably AM making too much of this...

[alphazeta]

No, you're not making too much of it.

I recently traded a high dollar knife on another forum & found out that the other party decided to send out the his end of the deal only after receiving mine. & my knife was the one of higher value.

On the other hand, if they make you aware of it up front then it's a simple choice of:

Option #1 "...surething..."

or

Option #2 "...bugger off. screw this deal. I'll find someone else to trade with"

my $0.02
-AZ

[Jumpmaster]

Well, I've seen this happen when people are pretty new to a forum with relatively few posts...but with your 185 and having been here for several months, well...I don't know. Maybe some people are extrapolating that to mean that the newer person ships first every time.

It's up to each person doing the trade to agree to the terms, but I agree you should've been made aware of the other person's intent not to send his until after he had yours.

JM-99

[Niconical]

You're not making to much off it, not at all. We have the Marketplace to help us measure someone's reputation, but ultimately it's just you and the other guy. When you get down to it, a trade is pretty much just a leap of faith.

The reason you're not making too much of it is because someone not sending until you do is not good. If person A wants to trade with person B, but isn't 100% confident they'll get something from person B then that's fine, you don't know each other, no biggie, and it's always good to be careful. However, in the situation you describe person A is saying "I know I'm honest enough to send my package, I expect you to believe me on that, but I won't do the same for you and believe that you're honest until I see some proof".

For the record, the first MP member I traded with was Alphazeta, and it was all good

[curtispdx]

Good point about dealing with someone new. Perhaps that's what happened the first time. (And I should state that I knew the arrangement on the first one and agreed to it.)

I suppose what prompted me to post this is when I first learned of the "arrangement" AFTER I shipped my light. (The second one.)

Maybe I should give the benefit of the doubt and presume that I didn't get a chance to read the latest PM until I got home and had already mailed off the light. Yeah, THAT'S what I'll think...

[Empath]

This thread has been moved to the suitable forum.

It was not a valid jeer. The phrase "Jeers to the" was removed from the title, and it was moved to a forum that permits the discussion of B/S/T practices and concerns.

[Crenshaw]

I think its is just a show of good faith to send your light out, and for the other person to send the light out.

obviously, this should be settled via PMs before sending.

Crenshaw

[matrixshaman]

Trades seem to be the most prone to problems on forums. I avoid them. But if someone is offering an item for trade I look at it the same as someone offering an item for sale. In a sale you are 'trading' money for the item. Most people want the money first and then send out the item 'traded' for your money. So they way I look at it is the person posting the trade may expect to get 'paid' first with your item before shipping out his. I think that is fair but totally up to the 2 parties. If both want to send out at the same time that's fine but it should probably be stated up front or the person responding to the trade needs to clarify how the trade will go down.

[Sgt. LED]

Gee I just say done deal and tell the guy when I am going to ship my half.
So far, so good.

I think a couple of years ago somebody wanted to have me send it first and later they would send theirs like in the OP and I said nevermind. If I don't conduct myself on here in a proper and respectable manner I would understand someone taking it cautious. If I have been respectable then I want that respect back. The way I see it is if you screw over one or maybe two people here you are pretty much done. Who would deal with you! My reputation on CPF is very very important to me so I'm not going to risk having someone unhappy. Every transaction is important.

If you don't fully trust me from the start then keep your stuff and your PP. I don't need it that bad.

[russthetoolman]

For what it's worth, Curtis is my friend in the same town and we are flashlight "buddies". He loves to trade and try different lights to find what suits his tastes. I do machine work for myself and him, and I vouch for him since I steered him to CPF. He has educated himself by asking me and doing lots of research on CPF and he contributes also.
This community is world wide and I have to say it is a GREAT bunch of people that transcends all race, religion, politics and differences that our media portrays in the world. On CPF we are all the same, people loving lights.
I wish we had procedures that were like a contract stating a normal B/S/T, and then we can negotiate off the standard and have good communications.
We don't have an escrow, a middle man, to send the lights to and when he receives them, he ships them to the final people. So we have faith in our members, that's what is great.
In my opinion, someone that wants something first is showing bad faith and is judging me off his past bad experience and I choose not to participate because it is a killjoy to the fun of enjoying our hobby. When we order or trade we are anticipating it's arrival and now Curtis doesn't have the joy of receiving his light.
So if "you" are reading this, SEND CURTIS HIS LIGHT.
I have also had in the mail, lights I have sold, before being paid. I have sent RyanRPM my EagleTac M2XC4 for a review he wanted to do and someone said "what if he keeps it?" To which I asked why would he? and so what, it's a flashlight, whoopee. If I can't afford to lose it, then I don't risk it. I learned that people matter, not material things. I gave my trust to Ryan by sending him the light, think how good that made him feel that I trusted him with my light, and no, I don't care if he dinged it up, (which he did not!) I would have eventually anyway, it's a light, it can be replaced, but our trust and friendship means more than a dinged light. I also attended my first get together in Seattle and took a huge case of lights, set them all out and told anyone looking at them to use them and try them out, everyone did and low and behold, I had all my lights when I placed them on my shelf the next day, wow, huh? Act how you want to be treated.......
So, do you see the pattern? When I act trustworthy, I get it back, simple, eh?
Russ

[curtispdx]

Thanks for the back-up, Russ, but I purposely kept the other guy's name out of it so the trade may or may not be current.

Yeah, you DID tell me about this place; before learning about CPF I was perfectly happy (and wealthier ) with my Ultrastinger! I thought that light was the coolest thing since sliced bread...

[London Lad]

I think its down to how you both feel about each other.

Personally I wouldn't ask anyone to 'ship first', if I didn't trust them I wouldn't trade in the first place. Equally I wouldn't expect to be asked to 'ship first', but if I was I would just politely decline the trade.

I would be a bit pi**ed off if I only found out after I had shipped like the OP here.

[TITAN1833]

IMO trades are done once both have been shipped at the same time,the other way would certainly send out the wrong message to me.something I wouldn't practice anyway. and people who do should state "trial trade" if I like your item I'll send mine if not I'll send yours back,I don't trust you but! you should most certainly trust me LOL

Put it another way,if I trade with someone on the street we exchange and that's it,trading on a forum should be no different IMHO
"ship at the same time or don't trade!"

[curtispdx]

And, what happens if I don't like HIS light?

Ah, I'm getting myself all worked up again. Think happy thoughts, think happy thoughts, think happy thoughts...

[TITAN1833]

And, what happens if I don't like HIS light?

Well I'm assuming both parties have researched and reached a educated guess that the light is what you like and want,just like you would do if you were just buying a light out right on B/S/T

[curtispdx]

Well I'm assuming both parties have researched and reached a educated guess that the light is what you like and want,just like you would do if you were just buying a light out right on B/S/T

Actually, I meant what if I didn't care for the condition of the light, that it wasn't comparable to the one I traded.

[Kaichu Dento]

I've had some trades I wan't happy with, but not because the other party misrepresented their light. When I get something I don't want, it goes back up for trade/sale, or lands in the drawer and I keep my reputation intact.

[wadup]

if we're talkng about $50 lights, and both lights are described as 'used' ,

and both lights arrive working in reasonable time.

id say there is nothing to worry about.

however,

if you are trusting enough to ship your light without any prior arrangement, understanding or conditions of shipping, and trust that the other party will do the same, you are a very trusting person,


and thats a good thing.

myself i dont blindly trust everyone on the internet, ive seen too many people get scammed.(some for $1000s)

i hope your light arrived and is 'as described'

[ConfederateScott]

Well I understand each side iI guess. I just shipped a half case of MRE's to a fellow to trade for a BPvest carrier that I need for making a cool vest, He has the MRE's but I dont have the carrier yet,. I domt mind a little waiting.