I started this to gather some runtime data on the various HDS/Novatac lights.
Way I tested:
light standing on end in a small cup
water level to within 1/2" of the top
Why did I pick "hot" water? It's hot enough to promote good capacity from the battery, but not hot enough to trigger the thermal stepdown of the light.
The ending temp will vary from light to light and also depends on the material of the cup, the air temp, any airflow over the cup, conduction from the bottom of the cup, and other minor factors. I primarily included it to show that the whole assembly retained good temperature throughout the test. That being said... since the trend is established I'm dropping that data point on further tests.
This somewhat shows that Henry's note about 60 including better leds than the 42 is right. I really expected the 42xr to have longer runtime than the u60 (on level 2). For those that don't know, the u60 on level 2 is supposed to be 42 lumens, just like the b42xr on level 1.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
U60
level 1
97F water
95F @ test end
550mah 123 batterystation protected li-ion
24 min till stepdown
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
U60
level 2
97F water
88F @ test end
550mah 123 batterystation protected li-ion
68 min till stepdown
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
B42XR
level 1
97F water
90F @ test end
550mah 123 batterystation protected li-ion
85r
level 1
100F water
550mah 123 batterystation protected li-ion
18 min before stepdown
Suspect my li-ion cell(s) are losing capacity. If I replace them, I will re-run tests.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ra Twisty Series. Added 3-5-2009
85r
level 1
air cooled via ceiling fan, temp stabilized below thermal limit
900mah 123 batterystation protected li-ion
23 min before stepdown
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ra 140C prototype series. Added 11-21-2008
140c
level 1
98F water
550mah 123 batterystation protected li-ion
30 min before stepdown
Suspect my li-ion cell(s) are losing capacity. If I replace them, I will re-run tests.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ra Clicky 170CN series, serial 6130 Added 1-13-2009
170cn
level 1
air cooled via ceiling fan, temp stabilized @ approx 94F
550mah 123 batterystation protected li-ion
39 min before stepdown
Suspect my li-ion cell(s) are losing capacity. If I replace them, I will re-run tests.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ra Clicky 170CN series, serial 6115 Added 1-20-2009
170cn
level 1
air cooled via ceiling fan, temp stabilized @ approx 94F
550mah 123 batterystation protected li-ion
48 min before stepdown
Suspect my li-ion cell(s) are losing capacity. If I replace them, I will re-run tests.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ra Clicky 170CN series, serial 6115 Added 3-5-2009
170cn
level 1
air cooled via ceiling fan, temp stabilized @ approx 94F
900mah 123 batterystation protected li-ion
55 min before stepdown
Suspect my li-ion cell(s) are losing capacity. If I replace them, I will re-run tests.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
cognitivefun
11-15-2005, 06:53 PM
very nice, thank you.
Navck
11-15-2005, 07:02 PM
Now how long do these lights go on for before their batterys stop working?
turbodog
11-15-2005, 07:44 PM
Now how long do these lights go on for before the battery stops working?
That wasn't really the purpose of this test. By the time the li-ion cells drop a level they are pretty much spent. The few times I have let them run all the way down, they drop again in 4-5 minutes, then in 3-4 minutes, then in 1-2 minutes. The lowest level will end up running 1+ hour(s), but I don't really care about that to be honest.
I would like to see some other hard data accumulate here.
Navck
11-15-2005, 08:37 PM
Thats good, so I can use that blinding beam for about 30ish minutes on a XR model?
turbodog
11-15-2005, 09:47 PM
Thats good, so I can use that blinding beam for about 30ish minutes on a XR model?
Well, according the HDS's info ANY model gives a minimum of 20 minutes runtime at max output and ANY XR model gives 50% more runtime that a non-xr model so yes, you should get a minimum runtime of 30 minutes at max settings on any HDS light.
I hope to see more info here from other users.
HDS_Systems
11-16-2005, 02:42 AM
Turbodog,
The first temperature seems a bit low for full power - should the first digit actually be a 9 - as in 98.4F? That would have the temperature rise by 1.4 degrees instead of dropping by 8.6 degrees.
Henry.
Grox
11-16-2005, 03:36 AM
Turbodog,
The first temperature seems a bit low for full power - should the first digit actually be a 9 - as in 98.4F? That would have the temperature rise by 1.4 degrees instead of dropping by 8.6 degrees.
Henry.
This man, he makes a good point. :thinking:
:crackup:
turbodog
11-16-2005, 06:13 AM
Turbodog,
The first temperature seems a bit low for full power - should the first digit actually be a 9 - as in 98.4F? That would have the temperature rise by 1.4 degrees instead of dropping by 8.6 degrees.
Henry.
Oops, I transposed the temp readings between #1 and #2.
I used water that was about 97F for the tests, but that temp was BEFORE I filled the cup. When it hit the cup and light it immediately dropped in temp as the cup and light came up to temp.
In test #1 the temp actually went down to 93F initially and then climbed back up to 95.1F at the end.
Sean
11-20-2005, 05:40 AM
Great info, I was just wondering how long a B42XR would run. Not very long I see. My U85 on level 3 (42 lumens level) runs 168 minutes!
leukos
12-20-2005, 12:11 AM
My new B42GT just ran 100 minutes on an R123 at the 42 lumen level. I'm surprised it outperforms its specs so well, and not even being an XR. Maybe improvements in the circuitry? I do notice that in high mode after a few seconds it will have a slight flicker and dim just a little bit? :thinking:
Billson
12-20-2005, 01:06 AM
My new B42GT just ran 100 minutes on an R123 at the 42 lumen level. I'm surprised it outperforms its specs so well, and not even being an XR. Maybe improvements in the circuitry? I do notice that in high mode after a few seconds it will have a slight flicker and dim just a little bit? :thinking:
Could the dimming be the result of the light stepping down? 100 minutes seems too good to be true even better than an EDC60 which should not be the case. I once thought my 60GT ran at 60 lumens for 60+ minutes until I measured it on a light meter and saw that it was stepping down after just a few minutes without being noticeable even when looking directly at it. It just flickers a bit before it steps down like you describe.
leukos
12-20-2005, 01:21 AM
Could be. It just flickers a little before it dims and it dims only slightly. It is very different from when the light blinks off then on again but 50% lower. That is what happened after 100 minutes and it looked about 2x the 10 lumen setting. I don't have a light meter, so can't be certain. Doesn't hardly get warm either. Just wondering because the behaviour seems a little different than the manual and what others describe. :shrug:
Planterz
12-22-2005, 06:21 AM
I just did a somewhat informal runtime test on my Basic 42XR. I don't have a light meter (or a way to take its temperature), so I'm just going by my eyeballs, and comparison to the Inova T1 I've got lying around.
I started with a fresh Surefire 123A (now I only have 2 dozen left--oh no). Set it to full brightness, and sure enough, within a few minutes (I didn't mark the time, sorry), it flickered and dropped a bit. Not much, but it was there.
After about 10 minutes, the light was getting warmer than I cared for it to get, so I wrapped it in a cold compress (one of those blue-ice thingies you use for injuries) to keep it cool. Despite the cold temperature of the pack, the light stayed at about room temperature.
A2 about 52 minutes, the light stepped down to the next level. However, I was supprised that it didn't fully step down to the primary 10 lumen setting. It was somewhere inbetween. Out of curiosity, I turned it off, then back on again, and then set it to full brightness. After just a couple seconds, it flickered and stepped back down.
An interesting thing to note is that if I set it to the primary brightness and press-held the switch for momentary full brightness, it steps up, then steps up again, albeit briefly before stepping back down to this inbetween-level brightness.
I resumed the test at max brightness (which was I suppose 2 steps down from fresh-battery brightness, and 1 step down from what I guess I'll call "regular max" brightness).
At 1 hour 29 minutes, the light stepped down to the primary 10 lumen setting.
While typing this, the battery got a bit of a "rest", so I tried the high setting again. It worked at the 2--step-down brightness max for 10 more minutes before pooping out to the 10 lumen primary setting again.
This is where I end the test, since the light apparently lasts quite some time at the 10 lumen setting, and it's time for me to go to bed.
I'll try another test tomarrow with R123s from batterystation.
Planterz
12-23-2005, 10:32 PM
OK, batterystation R123s (protected).
First battery, 32 minutes on max before first stepdown, 1 hour 21 minues before stepdown to 10 lumen.
Second battery, 30 minues on max before first stepdown, 1 hour 32 minutes til stepdown to 10 lumen.
I find these results pretty interesting. Runtime after the 1st stepdown and before the 2nd stepdown is very close to that of the Surefire CR123A. About 20 minues longer runtime at max brightness for the non-rechargable.
Both batteries were on their very first cycle. I don't know much about Li-Ion batteries, so I don't if they need a few cycles to "get going" like NiCads or NiMHs do.
Sean
12-24-2005, 03:30 AM
I got pretty much the same results. The rechargeable doesn't last as long in the XR's as it does the standard HDS's because it doesn't have to work as hard. If you would have gotten the non-XR, the results would have been closer.
Sean
12-24-2005, 03:32 AM
Well, according the HDS's info ANY model gives a minimum of 20 minutes runtime at max output and ANY XR model gives 50% more runtime that a non-xr model so yes, you should get a minimum runtime of 30 minutes at max settings on any HDS light.
I hope to see more info here from other users.
How does your brightness compare between the B42XR and U60 set on level 2?
turbodog
12-24-2005, 06:47 AM
How does your brightness compare between the B42XR and U60 set on level 2?
The same.
The only reason I can tell a difference is:
1. the color's a little different
2. the beam focus is slightly different between them
Planterz
12-24-2005, 08:00 AM
OK, I just noticed that my results were significantly less than Turbodog's. How can it be that his 42RX lasts as long with a R123 as my 42XR lasts with a CR123A? I'm now wondering if I didn't get a mislabled light.:huh2:
Sean
12-24-2005, 08:55 AM
Mine are less too, XR only is a guarentee of at least 30 minutes. Some last a bit longer. Mine runs about 42 minutes but is brighter than my U85 on level 3 (42 lumen level). It's about halfway between level 2 and 3 actually. So I'd say my B42 is about 50 lumens or so, if my U85 level 3 is used as a comparision.
That would account for the run-time being shorter.
Planterz, your B42 might be brighter than TurboDog's. Or TurboDog's might just have a better emitter.
One thing that I am amazed at is that TurboDog got that long out of his B42 with a R123. My B42 with a MP Li-ion gets about 30 minutes. I get longer run-time with a Duracell.
Planterz
12-24-2005, 09:20 AM
Mine are less too, XR only is a guarentee of at least 30 minutes. Some last a bit longer. Mine runs about 42 minutes but is brighter than my U85 on level 3 (42 lumen level). It's about halfway between level 2 and 3 actually. So I'd say my B42 is about 50 lumens or so, if my U85 level 3 is used as a comparision.
We're talking about a regular lithium here, right? If that's the case, then mine is certainly an XR if it lasts 52 minutes on a Surefire battery. Even if it's for an R123, 30 minutes is the runtime I'm getting.
As for brightness, you make an interesting point. I have no method of testing brightness other than comparing to other lights, so I can't tell for certain. My only other high-power light at the moment (until my SF L2 and CPF Peak arrive) is a Light & Motion Vega bike light. Level 2 on the Vega is supposedly 55 lumens, and my 42XR rivals it. It's hard to tell; the spot on the HDS is brighter, but a bit tighter. I'm pretty confident that the Vega's advertized ratings are accurate, since I've compared the 85 lumen max to an HDS U60 and my old SF L2. The 42XR is definitely quite a bit brighter than my Vega @ 35 lumens.
2 more questions:
What's the estimated runtime @ max brightness for a regular HDS 42? And (getting a bit OT here) do lithium ion rechargables have a "break in" period, requiring a few cycles to get max capacity?
Thanks. In any case, I feel a lot better about my HDS than I did just a few hours ago. For a moment, I thought maybe I had a bum light.
BackBlast
12-27-2005, 06:32 AM
And (getting a bit OT here) do lithium ion rechargables have a "break in" period, requiring a few cycles to get max capacity?
No. They do not need to be "broken in" like nickel chemistries.
voodoogreg
01-06-2006, 03:11 PM
Believe it or not my B-60 on a Li ion ran 36 min on high. I taped a zip lock sandwich bag full of ice around it when it clicked down a notch, went back up after a few min's and the bag was removed.(without the "coolant" in everyday use temp will range from 103 to 107-8 on high) I will admit this particular batt station cell on the BS charger has seemed to always run loooong. I didn't read all the post's im sure this is not a record but
I was very surprized since it's just a basic-60. no XR. On the white topped cell's i got with my first "broke" nano it seem's way shorter. Incidently this is the
only runtime test i have ever done, I don't find a lot of curiosity in the chart's
that show 2-7 min difference, but 15 mins extra did catch me eye anyway. VDG
turbodog
01-20-2006, 09:07 AM
I have more data. See post #1 again.
turbodog
01-23-2006, 08:59 PM
I have more data. See post #1 again.
And more
turbodog
08-01-2006, 11:09 AM
For those that keep asking about runtime on the hds with different tubes, start with post #1.
jsr
08-01-2006, 12:12 PM
Seems everyone sees a small drop in output after a few minutes. Is it stepping down to a lower level at that point? In which case it's no longer at the max level (42lms for B42 and 60lms for a B/U60)? i.e. if you turn on a B42 to max and it steps down in a few minutes and lasts another 40 minutes at that lower level, does that mean it was only at 42lms for a few minutes then a lower output for the next 40 minutes?
I'm trying to understand the output claims...if it's supposed to last 20-30 minutes minimum at max level, why does it step down slightly in a few minutes?
clipse
08-01-2006, 12:28 PM
Seems everyone sees a small drop in output after a few minutes. Is it stepping down to a lower level at that point? In which case it's no longer at the max level (42lms for B42 and 60lms for a B/U60)? i.e. if you turn on a B42 to max and it steps down in a few minutes and lasts another 40 minutes at that lower level, does that mean it was only at 42lms for a few minutes then a lower output for the next 40 minutes?
I'm trying to understand the output claims...if it's supposed to last 20-30 minutes minimum at max level, why does it step down slightly in a few minutes?
I'm guessing that you light is overheating and stepping down becuase of the thermal protection taking care of the LED emitter. The tests in the first posts are done with the light in a glass of water specifically to draw heat away from the light so the thermal protection won't kick in. If you have a good grip on your light, you hand will work like a heatsink and draw heat away from the light.
clipse
turbodog
08-01-2006, 02:46 PM
Exactly.
Except, depending on factors, you may have to really keep a good grip on it to keep it from overheating and stepping down.
Factors:
emitter efficiency
air temp
hand size
basically, all factors related to heat generation and transfer
turbodog
08-01-2006, 08:54 PM
New data on the 2AA tube!
See first post for more details.
jsr
08-02-2006, 08:18 AM
Thanks for the explanations. So the claimed runtime on max is really in a unrealistic test environment (most testers are artificially cooling it) while in actual use, it would be difficult to get the 20-30 minutes on max unless I use my master kung-fu grip on it and make sure my heart is pumping fast to circulate cooling fluid.:D At least it seems the next level is not very noticably different.
turbodog
08-02-2006, 09:05 AM
I will say that the 2aa pack had a longer "tail" after the initial stepdown that the other packs.
turbodog
08-02-2006, 09:10 AM
Pretty much.
This is why I say that the runtime difference between the 2x123 and 18650 tube isn't enough to worry about.
Either one runs a LONG time. And if you stepdown from level1 a notch then the runtime doubles.
FYI: most all lights will run uncooled 1 step down from max without stepping down further.
Thanks for the explanations. So the claimed runtime on max is really in a unrealistic test environment (most testers are artificially cooling it) while in actual use, it would be difficult to get the 20-30 minutes on max unless I use my master kung-fu grip on it and make sure my heart is pumping fast to circulate cooling fluid.:D At least it seems the next level is not very noticably different.
AZLight
08-02-2006, 12:30 PM
Pretty much.
This is why I say that the runtime difference between the 2x123 and 18650 tube isn't enough to worry about.
You might not worry but many certainly will be when the U85+ comes out and the 18650 tube will run longer than 2x123 by at least 30% on max setting.
Billson
08-02-2006, 07:48 PM
Thanks for the explanations. So the claimed runtime on max is really in a unrealistic test environment (most testers are artificially cooling it) while in actual use, it would be difficult to get the 20-30 minutes on max unless I use my master kung-fu grip on it and make sure my heart is pumping fast to circulate cooling fluid.:D At least it seems the next level is not very noticably different.
I once did a runtime test while holding the light in my hand and it didn't get hot enough to step down until the the battery was exhausted after about 30 minutes. It didn't require me to hold it in any specific way. I tried my best to simulate using the light in a realistic situation. As long as you're actually using the light and not as a lamp, I don't think thermal stepdown will be a problem.
turbodog
10-01-2006, 08:54 PM
I say it won't matter because you have to artificially cool the light to keep it from stepping down. And once it steps down, the runtime skyrockets.
Either 18650/2x123 tube on level 2 will run basically all night. And I challenge anyone (even us CPF nerds) to actually USE a light for this length of time.
Basically, you have to setup an artificial environment to even take advantage of long runtimes on level 1. The recent poll about stepdown from level 1 found that most lights lasted ~3-5 minutes before moving to level 2.
You might not worry but many certainly will be when the U85+ comes out and the 18650 tube will run longer than 2x123 by at least 30% on max setting.
AZLight
10-02-2006, 05:28 PM
I say it won't matter because you have to artificially cool the light to keep it from stepping down. And once it steps down, the runtime skyrockets.
Either 18650/2x123 tube on level 2 will run basically all night. And I challenge anyone (even us CPF nerds) to actually USE a light for this length of time.
Basically, you have to setup an artificial environment to even take advantage of long runtimes on level 1. The recent poll about stepdown from level 1 found that most lights lasted ~3-5 minutes before moving to level 2.
OK, city boy, let me explain to you for the last time in plain English why you don't know what you are talking about. Last week while scouting for elk up in Flagstaff, AZ, the temperature was mid sixty during the day and mid thirty at night. I did not have to artificially cool the light to keep it from stepping down. The 18650 tube lasted about over 2 hours on Max setting with my U60GT. My elk hunt is Oct 6th and it will be colder yet.
So, your challenge is lame to say the least, especially for a CPF nerd. Try leaving the house sometimes and may be you will understand what the HDS light was designed for.
MeLLoJeLLo
10-03-2006, 06:31 AM
Last week while scouting for elk up in Flagstaff, AZ, the temperature was mid sixty during the day and mid thirty at night. I did not have to artificially cool the light to keep it from stepping down. The 18650 tube lasted about over 2 hours on Max setting with my U60GT. My elk hunt is Oct 6th and it will be colder yet.
So I guess it's a 3 seasons flashlight then. :grin2:
joema
10-03-2006, 07:14 AM
Basically, you have to setup an artificial environment to even take advantage of long runtimes on level 1. The recent poll about stepdown from level 1 found that most lights lasted ~3-5 minutes before moving to level 2.
...while scouting for elk up in Flagstaff, AZ, the temperature was...mid thirty at night. I did not have to artificially cool the light to keep it from stepping down...So, your challenge is lame...Try leaving the house sometimes...
I'd say your experience validates Turbodog's point. Yes, Elk hunting in mid-30F ambient temperature will prevent the HDS from stepping down, likewise will SCUBA diving with it, arctic exploration, etc. However from a temperature/heat conductivity standpoint those are artificial environments relative to what we normally experience.
Kiessling
10-03-2006, 07:26 AM
OK, city boy, let me explain to you for the last time in plain English why you don't know what you are talking about.
AZLight ... tone it down. Remember the Golden Rule. Your style quoted above is not an acceptable behaviour for CPF, and it will not be tolerated.
Thank you.
bernhard
PoliceScannerMan
10-03-2006, 07:29 AM
However from a temperature/heat conductivity standpoint those are artificial environments relative to what we normally experience.
:huh2:
While hunting, to and from the tree stand (Even here in Florida) while deer hunting its 30F in the winter months of deer season (2 degrees below freezing). I promise you its not an artificial environment. Hunters get out to their stands before daylight, that walk could be 2 miles in some cases. They come out of the stands around 3-4 hours after sunrise, then its back to the stand for dusk. Now the hunter comes out of the stand when its dark, time to hike back to camp, the truck, etc.
Just like AZlight was saying, there is real world use of Level1 for 60+ minutes. These environments may be artificial to wallhunters and the like, but for outdoorsmen, hunters, night fishermen, etc., that environment is very real out there.
turbodog
10-03-2006, 07:40 AM
I think you're missing the forest for the trees.
I'm saying that overall, most people will have a VERY hard time using a 2x123 OR 18650 setup fully.
And actually, if you wanna discuss specifics... deer hunting at freezing temps favor the 2x123 setup. Why? The primary lithiums in a 2x123 are unaffected by the cold temps. Wheras an 18650 li-ion cell NEEDS heat, and a good bit of it, to perform up to rated capacity.
And this is coming from me, someone who had to send an L4 back to surefire because I melted the emitter due to prolonged running.
And I would never leave on an outdoor trip with li-ion cells anyway. Their drop-off is too steep. But this is personal taste.
On the lighter side... isn't it a violation of intergalactic law to accuse someone from Mississippi of being a city boy?
:huh2:
While hunting, to and from the tree stand (Even here in Florida) while deer hunting its 30F in the winter months of deer season (2 degrees below freezing). I promise you its not an artificial environment. Hunters get out to their stands before daylight, that walk could be 2 miles in some cases. They come out of the stands around 3-4 hours after sunrise, then its back to the stand for dusk. Now the hunter comes out of the stand when its dark, time to hike back to camp, the truck, etc.
Just like AZlight was saying, there is real world use of Level1 for 60+ minutes. These environments may be artificial to wallhunters and the like, but for outdoorsmen, hunters, night fishermen, etc., that environment is very real out there.
joema
10-03-2006, 08:08 AM
...while deer hunting its 30F in the winter months of deer season (2 degrees below freezing). I promise you its not an artificial environment...
No natural environment anywhere in the universe is artificial by the strictest definition, unless it's made-made. An Eskimo using a U60 to build his igloo in the -40F arctic wilderness isn't artificial. However such environments might be loosely called foreign or artificial, relative to what most of us commonly experience.
I'm sure Turbodog meant the term "artificial environment" as atypical, or unusual relative to the average person's common experience, not a synthetic environment such as submerged in liquid freon.
DieselDave
10-03-2006, 05:49 PM
OK, city boy, let me explain to you for the last time in plain English why you don't know what you are talking about. Last week while scouting for elk up in Flagstaff, AZ, the temperature was mid sixty during the day and mid thirty at night. I did not have to artificially cool the light to keep it from stepping down. The 18650 tube lasted about over 2 hours on Max setting with my U60GT. My elk hunt is Oct 6th and it will be colder yet.
So, your challenge is lame to say the least, especially for a CPF nerd. Try leaving the house sometimes and may be you will understand what the HDS light was designed for.
Not only a bit rude but your comment shows an obvious lack of knowledge about TurboDog. I know nothing about you but my also uneducated guess is you are probably closer to Mr. Drysdale and he's closer to Jedd Clampett when compared to each other. Talk about not a city slicker, his lawnmower is worth more than most folks cars. He has more generators than I have gas cans. When his washer-dryer started getting old he was so embarrassed he took them off the front porch. Ok, I'm stretching it now but seriously, I want to hear more about scouting for elk and needing to run a torch for 2+ hours. I've never heard of scouting at night for big game using a torch. Were you looking for where they bed down or something?
PoliceScannerMan
10-03-2006, 06:10 PM
Artificial, natural, manmade etc..... Bottom line, I love my 18650 tube! :thumbsup:
I just hope its compatible with all future HDS lights! (LR85,HD120, etc.)
Ty_Bower
10-03-2006, 07:19 PM
I love mine too. I look at it this way: I don't want to pay over and over for primary cells, so I like to use rechargeables. I can use a R123A, or I can get a 2x123 tube and use an unprotected 17670, or I can use my 18650 tube with the 18650 cell.
If there's any reason at all to use the 17670, the 18650 is better. It doesn't make the light any bigger, and it lasts longer. How can this be a bad thing?
turbodog
10-03-2006, 07:41 PM
I like rechargeables as well.
It I had to pick between the 2 tubes, I'd pick the 2x123. Well, since I own one I guess I *did* pick it actually.
But why? I could have had both, or just the 18650. I figured the 2x123 was more versatile. I currently run a protected 17650 in it. But I can _safely_ run 2x123 also w/o fear of damaging the spring.
And Elk hunting on the mountains is fine and good. I'm glad your outside temp is 70F. The outside temp *here* is 95F. It's still above 70F at night.
With so many *comments* on the HDS stepping down, it's clear that the overwhelming majority of people *do* experience a stepdown during level 1 runs.
And once it steps down, the runtime (even for a 17650 cell) is going to hit at least 3 hours minimum.
All this is a moot point right now anyway. Neither tube is available.
I've got a final prototype of the 2aa. Maybe we'll get to see *it* released soon.
Wait... now that I think about it. The 18650 tube is discontinued anyway.
And don't get me wrong. The 18650 is an awesome cell. It's the li-ion equivalent of the nimh aa. There's a LOT of research going into it. I'm simply saying that the gains aren't earth-shattering, and the 2x123 tube has multiple-cell flexibility (and hasn't been discontinued).
I love mine too. I look at it this way: I don't want to pay over and over for primary cells, so I like to use rechargeables. I can use a R123A, or I can get a 2x123 tube and use an unprotected 17670, or I can use my 18650 tube with the 18650 cell.
If there's any reason at all to use the 17670, the 18650 is better. It doesn't make the light any bigger, and it lasts longer. How can this be a bad thing?
AZLight
10-04-2006, 04:27 AM
Wait... now that I think about it. The 18650 tube is discontinued anyway.
The 18650 tube is discontinued "for now". The point I am trying to make is that the HDS light is not designed for the ordinary. Why are the EDC light not available right now? It is because the military is getting them as fast as HDS/Novatac can make them. And, I can guarantee you that the military is not using it the way that most CPFs are using them. Ask any Iraq/Afghan vet how cold is it up in those mountains and you will be surprised. Have any of you weapon mounted any EDC yet? I have and it is the cat meow.
There is no artificial environment where I have been using my EDCs, and so far they have performed up to spec. So, what is your next challenge for the EDC?
turbodog
10-04-2006, 06:59 AM
Well if you're strictly talking about what the HDS was _designed_ for then there is a ton of information where Henry says it wasn't designed to be used primarily on level 1. He goes on and on about using the lower levels, long battery life, and the really crappy efficiencies of the high(er) levels, specifically level 1.
And frankly if someone is using it solely on level 1, there are better lights out there for this. L4/aleph/u2/etc
Long runtimes on level 1 affect the 2x123/17650/17670 also. I'm not saying it's immune. The 2x123 setup creates the least heat due to the higher voltage (and efficiency), but it will still dropdown.
Furthermore, from my talks with Henry I believe that the 18650 tube will never be re-released. Time will tell.
AZLight
10-04-2006, 11:18 PM
Well if you're strictly talking about what the HDS was _designed_ for then there is a ton of information where Henry says it wasn't designed to be used primarily on level 1.
What did you think the B60LE was designed for????? The Uxx light is designed to be programmed by the user for his particular need. You can program all four levels to be level 1 if you want to, it will not void your warranty.
If level 1 is such problematic for a x60 lights, why do you think they come out with a U85?
