Dual 5watt Luxeon bike light plans?

[RJ]

Wayne, I know you've done the 1watt bike lights,but I'm really interested in a 5watt version. Any plans on producing a 5watt bike light?
Russ

[ufokillerz]

Dual 5 Watts would produce a good amount of heat, and use a good amount of Power, Not quite sure that its feasible and if it is, it would be very quite big OR expensive to run.

[RJ]

True dual 5watters would produce a good amount of heat and consume a good amount of power, but with a good heat sink and ventillation while riding I would think excessive heat would not pose a problem. I have a 12volt NiMH 4000 mAH pack just wait for a pair of 5watters to hook up to. Even a single 5watt lux with 30mm optics would make a night rider more visible to motorist which is more a safety concern for riding at night, and higher visibility for the rider to boot.

[ElektroLumens]

[ QUOTE ]
RJ said:
Wayne, I know you've done the 1watt bike lights,but I'm really interested in a 5watt version. Any plans on producing a 5watt bike light?
Russ

[/ QUOTE ]

I just have not had time to get back to the bike light project.

I plan to buy some 1/2 D cells, or 1/2 C cells, and pack 10 of them into a water bottle, for 12 volts. I've seen plans on how to make a battery charger for this settup. Or just buy one ready to go.

This system would use two voltage regulators. I will use two of the micropucks. It is possible to do this, with special precautions taken.

Two 5W LEDs produce a lot of heat, true. I also discovered that some high tech bikes use materials other than metal for the handlebars. This shoots out the sink through the handlebars concept. If you remember the photo of the huge heat sinks I am using, they may provide enough sinking for the dual 5W approach.

Regarding power consumption, running at specs, they draw 1.4 amps. Using the regulator, it will pull at least 1.5, and maybe 1.7 amps. Now it depends on the mAh of the batteries I use, as to how long the light will burn.

I read someones post, where they compared the light output from the 5W to a 10 watt. I have no way to know this for sure. Anyway, this would be a 1.5 amp, 10 watt, rechargable system. It may be putting out equivalent to 20 watts of light.

Also, it will not turn that ugly yellowish color that halogen will, when the power is low. You still get a nice white light, even as it dims.

I plan to use two switches, two regulators. So if you do not need both lights, you can use one or the other. If something should happen to one, you still have the other.

I do have the single 5W bike light.

The funny part is, I need to buy a bike. Mine died.

This project may not end up as a product I market? It is more along the lines of a modified light, or a 'made from scratch' light. (Itch itch).

Wayne j

[rocketmaninphx]

The Bicycle market may be something you may want to consider. The Bicycle types will pay big dollars to save weight and purchase function. The LED light may may allow you to provide a great light with low weight and long run time.

Key factors to put into your requirements
Weight
Light Output
Bike Mount
Weight
Cost

The low end is adopting LEDs (Cateye)
and the high end is still halogen (Nightsun, Nightpro, Nightwawk etc.)

Check out the competition Big $$$ for a workable system.

Looks like an opportunity.

[Al_Havemann]

I've been using a 5 watt setup for about a month now with good results. Other than the bar mount and the heat sink, there's not much to making one.

I'll try and get some pictures and beam shots of my setup in the next week if someone can tell me how to post the pictures. I'm using a 12v 4.5ah water bottle battery with a 5w and 30mm optics.

The light works well for up to 18-20mph with good output and throw. It's very visible to oncoming traffic and has great run time. I only noticed some slight dimming after about 7 hours. When I checked the battery voltage I found it was at 8.75 volts - no load, so the LedDynamics puck is a really efficient at sucking the battery dry.

The optics and led are mounted in a piece of inch and a quarter copper pipe about 3" long with a cut down heat sink from a CPU fitted inside to transport the heat to the pipe. I haven't tested it yet in warm weather but on a 52 degree night ride last week (New Jersey) it settled down at about 85 degrees on the pipe surface measured with a Radio Shack remote probe. I used it for almost 2 hours without a problem. If heat buildup does become an issue it’s a simple matter to soldier a few copper fins on the pipe surface to dispose of it. An additional three square inches of fin will drop the temp by 15 degrees. The output is almost a dead-on match for a 10 watt halogen but with more side spill and a slightly more defuse beam. It's very white in comparison to the halogen but not more effective for all that.

The performance is good but keep in mind that it's only 5 watts. Just because it's a led doesn't make it a magic light, and it's not, it's a very good light but the output (not run time) can be matched by conventional lights for about $75.00, although the led will run at least twice as long. Don't discount that factor, for me anyway, it's a great feeling to not have to worry about getting back home before the tank goes dry.

Overall, I'm pleased with it, but at this time, with Luxeon leds costing what they do, I question the economics of a star equipped light. If your going to make your own it probably makes sense but from a commercial standpoint, I'm not sure. A star, a puck, battery and misc parts will cost about $75-$80 bucks and who knows the labor cost. A dual setup adds another $50.00 to the parts cost. I’d guess that a single light would have to sell for at least $125.00 to make a profit and a dual probably $200+.00 - not cheap but there’s room perhaps to make it work out. Also, I don’t think the window of opportunity is very wide for builders of custom lights. The big vendors like Catseye and Nightsun are actively eying LEDs and they have the big shops to manufacture pro setups. Right now their top of the line conventional lights are hitting right about the $300.00 mark so they have the room in their price structure to dominate if they go for it.

You could make a dual light just by doubling the setup and spot soldiering the tubes together with separate switches. I actually tried that and it works OK with dual pucks but on my bike I don’t have the bar room to mount it. I’m going to try mounting it to the stem nex, instead of the bar itself.

Al

[DonutPowered]

There's an interesting bicycle market for randonneurs. These are people who ride continous ultra long distances (sometimes 750 miles) through several nights. These folks need to carry all the batteries they will need for entire ride. This tends to get extra heavy with standard lighting. If you could develop a water-proof lighting system that maximizes battery life while still driving a Star at respectable brightness, you could sell quite a few of them this year. There's a ride called Paris-Brest-Paris that is held once every 4 years and this is the year. 400 bikers are gearing up for the ride and they're all looking for that magic lighting system that won't weigh them down, but will still light up the night.

I'm playing with an EverLED/AA lithium combination in conventional bike lights to try solve this problem, but I'm sure you could come up with a much more elegant, more efficient solution. On this ride, we are required to have redundant lighting systems so that means you could sell 2 lights to each rider. Or perhaps a dual 1 watt luxeon light with a single small battery pack.

[ElektroLumens]

I finally bought myself a dual suspension mountain bike. Not a very expensive one, though.

I mounted my triple 1 watt Luxeon Star headlamp.

http://elektrolumens.com/Bike_Light/Bike_Light.1.jpg

http://elektrolumens.com/Bike_Light/Bike_Light.2.jpg

Next, I need to put together a 12 volt battery pack. I plan to use 10 rechargable 1/2 D cells.

Later, I'll mount the 5 watt Luxeon Star light, using the micropuck.

Wayne

[Illuminated]

Wayne,

FYI - I found a good deal on 4Ah 4/3 "Fat" A NiMH cells w/solder tabs at batterystation.com ($1.50/cell). Last time I ordered they were down to about 200 left. I bought 2 dozen. They also sell many sizes and some color choices on shrink wrap for packing cells.

Most of my bike lights (including my current project) use this form factor because they offer excellent power density and packs can be configured many ways.

Also, Dan at TW might still have those TL 7.2V NiMH packs on sale. They use the 4/3A form factor and are around 2Ah rated.

I can see that with your bike frame, mounting a battery can be a challenge and a waterbottle battery would probably be easiest. I have mostly standard frames, so a long slender pack straps easily under the top tube and leaves both bottle cages available for water.

Keep us posted on your developements - and thanks for sharing.

John

[ElektroLumens]

I've decided to make a battery pack of twelve 2,000mAh AA nimh batteries. That will be 14.4 volts, and 24mAh of power. The batteries do not take too long to charge. I will just use two of my 6AA battery holders in series. Nice thing is, I could make it 4 sets parallel/series, for 48mAh of power. Anyway, I think the 24 amp hours is good. I'm simply going to put the batteries in a pouch under the seat (for now). This is all experimental. I will limit the voltage to 12 volts (10 batteries), for my triple headlight. For the 5W, I will use the 12V Micropuck from LED Dynamics to regulate the power. I'll start with my single 5W, and then build a double. I've been pondering the power source for a few days now.

So when the batteries come in, I'll try it out, see how it works. How about an all night off the road bike ride? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wayne j

[paulr]

Once you're talking about 10 watts of lighting for a bike, you might as well use a HID system. Those are available from a number of places these days.

[ElektroLumens]

[ QUOTE ]
paulr said:
Once you're talking about 10 watts of lighting for a bike, you might as well use a HID system. Those are available from a number of places these days.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I don't know a lot about bike lights, that's for sure. But I am looking to provide 5 to 10 watts of light, with better battery life. The light stays white, and never yellows. The LS right now only is rated at 1,000 hours, but it will eventually be 50,000 hours, hopefully 100,000 hours.

If I can achieve 10 to 20 watts of light with the Luxeon Star 5W, using rechargables, that seems pretty good.

Pure white light, longer lasting battery life, longer bulb life, and perhaps a lower price tag, might combine to make a fairly attractive bike lighting system, that will compete on par with some of the better lighting systems. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What is the average cost of a 10 watt system, these days?

Wayne j

[ElektroLumens]

I purshaced a small carry pouch, that is made to go under the seat. I put 8 AA alkalines in a holder, and wired it to the triple Luxeon Star bike light. I ran the wire along the frame back to the pouch, and put the battery holder inside.

http://elektrolumens.com/Triplestar_Bike_Light/Triplestar.Bike.Light.1.jpg
Triplestar Bike Light (http://elektrolumens.com/Triplestar_Bike_Light/Triple_LS_Bike_Light.html)


Tonight I took it out after it was pitch black. Wow! This thing seems like a car light. It uses the NX05 optics, so the beam is a bit wider than the 30mm optics, but man, it really lights up the road. For sure, it is bright enough for any riding I would do. I would think it is enough light for 25mph or 30mph ? This seems every bit as bright as a 5 watt Luxeon Star, and probably brigher. Under load it goes to 10 volts, and draws 1 amp. So that is 10 watts.

When I get the nimh AA batteries, I'll use them with the 5 watt/micropuck system. I plan to use both lighting systems. The Triplelux will be the backup, and the 5 watt will be the main system. Or, if I ever need twice as much light, I'll have it.

I may get a ticket for too bright a light, if I use these things on the street?

Wayne

[Illuminated]

Wayne,

So those Luxeons are wired in series, I assume? Sounds nice. I am looking into possibilities for a highly efficient Luxeon 1W configuration to back up my flamethrower (and hungry) primary light.

Keep up the good work!

John

[ElektroLumens]

[ QUOTE ]
Illuminated said:
Wayne,

So those Luxeons are wired in series, I assume? Sounds nice. I am looking into possibilities for a highly efficient Luxeon 1W configuration to back up my flamethrower (and hungry) primary light.

Keep up the good work!

John

[/ QUOTE ]

I wire them in series, for 12 volts. It draws 1 amp. That may differ, depending on the batteries used. I may need to use some resistance with rechargables. It is very bright. I have basically finished the 5W bike light, but still need to mount it on the bike. This initial bike light will not be useable on the street, as I put a cyan in it. I forgot about that, until I powered it up. The next one will be using white.

I'm anxious to see how the 5W does with the micropuck, and 11 1.2 volt rechargables for 13.2 volts. That will be 22 amp hours. I'll have to test and see how long it runs.

Wayne

[ElektroLumens]

Here's a pic of the bike and Triple Star bike light, fully wired. Batteries are in the red pouch. When the 2,000mAh nimh batteries come, I'll put them in two 6AA battery holders, wired in series.

http://elektrolumens.com/Bike_Light/Bike_Light.4.jpg

Wayne

[rocketmaninphx]

Wayne when do they got on sale?

It's starting to get hot on AZ and will need this to ride at night soon to keep from getting fried.

[Jonathan]

If you are planning on using NiMH cells, pretty much your best choices for format are AA cells, sub-C cells, and Long-Fat-A cells.

The reason is that these are the cells that are the most used in various applications, and thus get the most work done on them to be competitive.

The AA cells are used by consumers in everything.

The sub-C cells are used in battery power tools. These are optimized for low internal resistance and high power output, but not high energy storage. You can get sub-C cells that can be reasonably used at 20-30A.

The long-fat-A cells are used in laptop computers. These are optimized for high energy storage. In the same weight as a sub-C cell, you get 50% greater mAh, but can only use this up to about 4A.

For bicycle lighting applications, long-fat-A or AA is the way to go.

With respect to HID lighting for a bicycle versus LED lighting:
The _small_ (10W)HID systems are much less efficient then their big brothers, though still more efficient then either LEDs or halogens. It is just a much closer call. The 35W HID systems might do as well as 60 or 70 lumen per watt, but the 10W systems can fall below 40 lumen per watt. Given that LEDs are hitting better than 25 lumen per watt...

What I _really_ want from an LED system is one that can be dimmed down. My normal bike light is a properly driven 6W halogen (using a voltage regulator so that it doesn't get dimmer as the battery discharges). What I would like is to have several 5W luxeons set up so that they produce roughly the same amount of light, but so that I can 'push' them to full power as needed.

-Jon

[ElektroLumens]

I finally got the single 5W cyan bike light going today. It has those two huge sinks on the back. I hooked it up to my power supply, and left it on for a few hours. I measured the temperature of the sinks at 79 farenheit, and the ambient at 62 degrees. I couldn't measure the junction. This amount of heat sink is designed for two 5W, and is really overkill for only one.

I may mount this on my bike, but it is a bit big and heavy. I also have my 2,000mAh AA nimh batteries now.

This was a concept prover. I'll make another, smaller one, using a white 5W. Probably only one of the big sinks is needed.

Eventually, I'll design a cool bike light head with the sink on the back. It will use up to 14 volts in. It will only be one 5W, but you can probably hook up two. I'll put a diode in line, if more than one light is used, as each light will have it's own regulator.

Can you imagine what it would look like from in front of me, coming down the road. A white and a cyan light, blinding everything in my path ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

The cyan would only be usable off road. I'd probably get a ticket on the street.

I'll add more photos later. Perhaps a web page on this project.

(P.S. I like my dual suspension bike. I put the springs on cushy setting. )

Wayne

[Al_Havemann]

I was out Tuesday night with my 5 watt light and got stopped by a local cop who rides - wanted to know where I got that light and where he could get one. Told him to keep an eye on your WEB site.

Al

[JollyRoger]

Wayne, you can get many decent halogen bike lights (10 watts or more) for around $80 to $200+ these days.

In my experience, in total darkness, even a very bright 1w luxeon does the job of getting me home, although I'm much happier with a 5w.

I don't think you'd really need two 5w's. Too much battery consumption....and too expensive.

None of these compare yet to a really bright lighting system (like Night Rider, Cateye, etc.). But for these you need to pay between $150 and $399 or more.....
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[RJ]

Wayne, Any progress report on your 5watt white lux on a single heatsink? I'm just waiting to see a 5watt bike light appear in your shopping cart /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Russ

[paulr]

Here's an interesting source of rechargeable batteries: newegg.com and a lot of ebay dealers are selling ultra-extended lithium ion cellular phone packs for the Nokia 51xx series phones. These are going for about $10.00 each and contain two 3.6V li ion cells in what looks like the long-fat-A form factor. The pack is rated 3.6V 3600 mAH so I guess the two cells are in parallel. They are solder tabbed and you'd take the pack apart to get the cells out, at which point you could unsolder and rewire them any way you wanted. They will weigh a lot less than NiMH cells with similar capacity.

On headlights, I wonder if there's a reasonable way to use a UKE Light Cannon as a bike light, either directly or by modding it. The probs are 1) the beam may be too focused (need to modify the reflector), and 2) the light with its six C cells is too heavy for a handlebar (need to separate the head from the batteries). It's attractive because the Light Cannon is a 10 watt HID dive light that's about 150 bucks, while comparable HID bike lights from Cateye and so forth go for at least double that.

[IlluminatingBikr]

[ QUOTE ]
ElektroLumens said:

http://elektrolumens.com/Bike_Light/Bike_Light.1.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that your dog in the background of the picture? What breed is s/he and is it a boy or girl?

[ElektroLumens]

[ QUOTE ]
Illuminatingbikr said:
[ QUOTE ]
ElektroLumens said:

http://elektrolumens.com/Bike_Light/Bike_Light.1.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that your dog in the background of the picture? What breed is s/he and is it a boy or girl?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is my faithful dog, Ranger. I can count on him to bark at friends, snip at kids, continuously escape the yard to come and go as he pleases. He also is good at removing burrs from my lawn, and depositing them in my house. He is some sort of Husky mix, that is all I know.

Wayne

[ElektroLumens]

[ QUOTE ]
RJ said:
Wayne, Any progress report on your 5watt white lux on a single heatsink? I'm just waiting to see a 5watt bike light appear in your shopping cart /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Russ

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the 2,000mAh batteries, the Powerpuck, the 5W LED. I just need to assemble it. I haven't had much time to work on it lately.

Wayne