New from LEDdynamics: The EverLED™ Flashlight Bulb [Archive]

LEDdynamics

03-04-2003, 02:59 PM

http://www.leddynamics.com/EverLED/LD_logo3.gif

LEDdynamics Introduces The EverLED™ Flashlight Bulb Replacement

http://www.leddynamics.com/EverLED/everled_glam.jpg

Rochester, VT / March 3, 2003 * LEDdynamics, Inc. today announced the introduction of the EverLED™ LED flashlight bulb replacement. The EverLED™ is the world’s first universal LED flashlight bulb, designed to turn virtually any flashlight into an energy efficient, durable, and long lasting solid state light source.

The EverLED™ uses the latest advances in LED and PowerSqueeze™ technologies to produce the most powerful beam of LED light available while providing up to 5 times the battery life of traditional incandescent or LED flashlights. The EverLED™ will work with almost any flashlight that uses a standard flange flashlight bulb, regardless of the type of batteries the flashlight requires, from 1 to 6 cells.

Lawrence Lopata, President, said, “We are excited to be the first company able to negotiate the technical hurdles preventing the development of this sort of product. The EverLED™ makes enjoying the benefits of LED technology as easy as changing the bulb in your flashlight. Personally, it is gratifying to know that this technology will mean a dramatic decrease in the quantity of dead batteries piling up in our landfills.”

Bill McGrath, Chief Technologist, added, “Prior to the development of the EverLED™, consumers wanting the benefits of LED technology were required to purchase special LED flashlights, and settle for far less light emission than traditional flashlights could offer. The EverLED™ changes the rules, turning almost any flashlight into a high powered LED torch that makes traditional flashlights look dim. The PowerSqueeze™ circuitry inside the lamp extracts the full potential energy from the batteries, making them last much longer.”

The EverLED™ has a rated life of more than 10 years if operated continuously. This means that the EverLED™ will last a lifetime and consumers can have the security of knowing that, when they need it most, their flashlight will work. Additionally, the EverLED™ is available in 6 colors; white, blue, teal, green, yellow, and red, a feature that traditional flashlights simply cannot offer.

For more information about the EverLED™, please visit the website: www.everled.com (http://www.everled.com)
For more information about LEDdynamics, Inc. and its products and technologies, please visit the website: www.leddynamics.com (http://www.leddynamics.com)

The EverLED™ units will ship March 17th. Due to the number of inquiries we have received, pre-orders will be processed on a 'first come-first served basis'.

The EverLED™ is available in White and 5 colors: Blue, Teal, Green, Red, and Yellow. Place your order today at www.ledsupply.com (http://www.ledsupply.com) and receive special pre-order pricing.

For those interested in distributorships, please contact the manufacturer, LEDdynamics Inc., directly at sales@leddynamics.com

For more information contact:
Jonathan Wish, Business Development
(802)767-9099
jwish@leddynamics.com

Stainless

03-04-2003, 05:21 PM

Thanks for the post. (I have already ordered) Any chance we could access runtime/brightness graphs for various combinations of batteries. (Ex: 1AA, 2AA, 3AA ... 1D, 2D, 3D...) Such info would help us make informed choices about where best to use these minature marvels - as well as helping us to have the most realistic expectations possible. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Sigman

03-04-2003, 05:51 PM

"Can't wait for the reviews!!"
I hope they're sending our "reviewers" some!!

03-04-2003, 07:50 PM

Your runtime graphs show that the output of the EverLED is higher than a krypton bulb. Is that true? Or is the graph meant to illustrate RUNTIME and not RELATIVE BRIGHTNESS? Just want a clarification.

Thanks

Xing_Tsu

03-04-2003, 10:14 PM

I work with LEDdynamics and I hope I can shed light on the test results. The graph and the test results indeed indicated more light output from the EverLED. While the units are meaningless, the scale is the same for both lamps. The same light meter, same flashlight, and same setups were used for both tests. The batteries were from a 4 pack of cells (2 for each test.)

This is why I think lumen ratings for flashlight bulbs are worth very little. When it comes to battery powered devices, you have to design for the range of voltages from the batteries, not just the voltage when they are brandy new. The question of "how many lumens" becomes "when?".

We have been working on the circutry for the EverLED for several years. We mourn the many batteries that have died to give you the best drop-in bulb replacement on the planet.

While I may be biased, I really feel that this time we have done everything the right way. We have dreamed of this since we saw our first Luxeon. But if you folks have suggestions, let us know. I think this is the only place where I find people as obsessed with light as I am.

We are performing more battery tests, but to be honest, it takes a frustratingly long time to kill batteries with these things!

Empath

03-04-2003, 10:53 PM

Xing_Tsu, since you asked for suggestions:
It seems that the manufacturer and the distributing channels for the Luxeon have put the burden of quality control on the shoulders of the manufacturers. The risky and expensive luck of the lottery method of dealing with the Luxeons it appears has been passed on now by the manufactures to the retailers and the end user. It seems there's no way of knowing whether the LED will be worth anything or not when purchasing. While I've only a few Luxeon lights, the percentage of worthless ones far exceeds what any 'customer' should absorb. Now, we've been told that the EverLED lamp will be a luck of the draw buy also. Do you think that's the way it should be? Don't you think a $40 flashlight bulb should be of the highest quality?

leddite

03-04-2003, 11:10 PM

well, i for one would be very interested in seeing a slew of graphs
for the EverLED running on 1-6 batteries, over time for each, and just
how bright they are and for how long, and all that.

it might be meaningless, but provided with that, in various methods of
measure, gives us a really nice idea of what to expect/etc.

of course, the best actual thing to do is see them in person and compare
with similar sorts of things that we're already familiar with.

thanx! looking forward to trying your product out in the very near future.

[ QUOTE ]
Xing_Tsu said:
I work with LEDdynamics and I hope I can shed light on the test results. The graph and the test results indeed indicated more light output from the EverLED. While the units are meaningless, the scale is the same for both lamps. The same light meter, same flashlight, and same setups were used for both tests. The batteries were from a 4 pack of cells (2 for each test.)

This is why I think lumen ratings for flashlight bulbs are worth very little. When it comes to battery powered devices, you have to design for the range of voltages from the batteries, not just the voltage when they are brandy new. The question of "how many lumens" becomes "when?".

We have been working on the circutry for the EverLED for several years. We mourn the many batteries that have died to give you the best drop-in bulb replacement on the planet.

While I may be biased, I really feel that this time we have done everything the right way. We have dreamed of this since we saw our first Luxeon. But if you folks have suggestions, let us know. I think this is the only place where I find people as obsessed with light as I am.

We are performing more battery tests, but to be honest, it takes a frustratingly long time to kill batteries with these things!

[/ QUOTE ]

Masala

03-05-2003, 07:08 AM

what makes one luxeon good and another "worthless"? I have only seen a few luxeons, and while they were all different shades of "white", they all put out a lot of light.

MicroE

03-05-2003, 08:18 AM

I also look forward to an independent review.

There is no such thing as a free lunch and I am a bit skeptical that a Luxeon drop-in module will beat the standard bulbs in all respects.

Of course, $40 can buy a lot of standard bulbs so I would expect a lot from this unit.

Bring on the reviews! I love new toys to buy!---Marc

Quickbeam

03-05-2003, 08:20 AM

They are sending me samples soon, so I'll have reviews up soon after I get them!

Short Circuit

03-06-2003, 02:06 PM

I can hardly wait for my order to arrive. ....... faster,faster,hurry, hurry......

LEDmodMan

03-06-2003, 02:58 PM

Jeff & Xing Tsu,

I would also like to see output graphs as much as most everyone else on this site would. Lumens vs. Time for several common sets of batteries (2xAA, 2xC, 2xD, 3xD) would be nice. This eliminates the "when" part of "The question of 'how many lumens' becomes 'when?'" if you start with fresh batteries. It is much more useful to have a graph without "meaningless" units so you can get the most useful information from it. Nondimensionalized data has its place, but here, I think it would be more useful to see the units.

If I understand correctly, this "bulb" is designed to put out the same amount of light on any given possible combination of number or size of batteries, so larger/more batteries just give longer run time. Is this information correct? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif If not, would you please enlighten us as to the specifics of how the EverLED™ works? What kind of current are you providing to the Luxeon? Thanks.

BuddTX

03-10-2003, 10:55 AM

Jonathan and Xing Tsu,

Thank you for taking the time to post here on CPF. I wish more manufactures would post here on CPF.

I second what Empath said about the "Luxeon Lottery". Potentially great products get bad reviews, not because of the product, but because of the green color of the light, or low output of the light.

Also, I would like to have one question answered. Will the Everled be BRIGHTER in battery packs with more batteries?

OR, does it have a voltage regulator, so that the led gets the same power, regardless of the battery pack?

LEDmodMan

03-10-2003, 11:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
BuddTX said: ...Also, I would like to have one question answered. Will the Everled be BRIGHTER in battery packs with more batteries? OR, does it have a voltage regulator, so that the led gets the same power, regardless of the battery pack?...

[/ QUOTE ]

Do I hear an echo...? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Xing_Tsu

03-10-2003, 03:09 PM

1. As to light vs. time graphs, we are anxious to post such information, but with the demand for all our products and services reaching an all time high, I think the teams are finding a shortage of time. Our priority is to ship the EverLEDs that have been pre-ordered by the various distributors on time.

2. I still don't get the debate about "meaningless units". Show me a lumen output rating for LED's or Flashlight bulbs and I'll blow holes in the results with all the variables about beam scatter, reflector efficiency and such. Our light meter is weighted to the human eye and outputs millivolts. That's what the units we have for the graph are. The fact is that if you measure the "light output" of the flashlight, that's what the results are. The conditions and the scale are the same for both lights.

3. The EverLED reaches full brightness at 2 cells. Above that voltage, the unit regulates the LED at the full brightness that can be produced by the LED while ensuring the rated life and temperature of the LED. Below 3 volts, the behavior is similar to the 2009A micropuck, gradually dropping output as the batteries diminish to ensure an appropriate amount of consumption vs. capacity. The EverLED continues to produce light down to a battery voltage of .8 Volts. So the short answer is that a 4 or 6 cell light will produce longer life than a 2 cell. However, a 2 cell flashlight will work just fine and provide the results seen in the published graph.

Our distributors have all agreed to the terms of the pre-order, which was first come, first serve. They will begin receiving our shipments by 3/17 (some may ship this week).

I personally am getting no sleep because I keep trying the prototypes in different flashlights and combinations. I have a little 1"AA" flashlight that is my favorite. I used it for a whole night one day last week and it wouldn't quit.
I can't wait until you get these things they are better than we expected them to be!

vcal

03-10-2003, 03:31 PM

Xing;
I assume that the revealing info. you give above is for the White version only?

I'm curious as to how the other 5 colors such as Amber or Red...i.e.-do those colors have almost the same low voltage characteristics?
TIA

BuddTX

03-10-2003, 06:03 PM

Xting tsu,

Thanks for your very clear answers! Very informative.

One last question, regarding what has become commonly known here on CPF, as the "Luxeon Lottery", where manufacturers have no cotrol of the "whiteness" or "brightness" of the Luxeon Star's that they purchase. Some Luxeon Stars are incredibly bright, and white, whereas others are green and dim.

This has nothing to do with you, but with Lumileds, and their quality control.

of course, we all want, very white, very bright Luxeon Stars, not the "puke green" color that some Luxeon stars have.

Again, this is not your fault, or other light manufacturers fault, but rather with the quality control of Lumileds.

Will you be getting the "luck of the draw" with the Luxeon Star lights?

Thanks,

Stainless

03-10-2003, 06:24 PM

BuddTX:
I believe that dark has two speeds:
Zero meters per second, and
Minus 180,000 meters per second.
Stainless
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

PhotonBoy

03-11-2003, 12:39 AM

I'm interested in Mr. Tsu's comment:

"I personally am getting no sleep because I keep trying the prototypes in different flashlights and combinations."

Knowing that the LED consumes 1 watt and looking at the copper color of its mount, heat dissipation will likely be an issue when choosing the flashlight to use it in. Worst case would be a small plastic light with a plastic reflector; best case would be a 6 D-cell Maglite... the more metal the better. If the temperature of the LED and regulating circuit in the lamp base were to rise above a certain point, say 65C - 70C, its useful lifetime might be severely reduced.

If I'm right about this, LEDdynamics should be spelling out any precautions to current and future buyers.

ElektroLumens

03-11-2003, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Empath said:
Xing_Tsu, since you asked for suggestions:
It seems that the manufacturer and the distributing channels for the Luxeon have put the burden of quality control on the shoulders of the manufacturers. The risky and expensive luck of the lottery method of dealing with the Luxeons it appears has been passed on now by the manufactures to the retailers and the end user. It seems there's no way of knowing whether the LED will be worth anything or not when purchasing. While I've only a few Luxeon lights, the percentage of worthless ones far exceeds what any 'customer' should absorb. Now, we've been told that the EverLED lamp will be a luck of the draw buy also. Do you think that's the way it should be? Don't you think a $40 flashlight bulb should be of the highest quality?

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of the many Luxeon Stars I purchase, on occasion I get one that is what I consider unacceptable; that yucky green color. Doesn't happen too often anymore.

This is cutting edge technology, and is quite remarkable. There is going to be some problems and setbacks, but it seems the kinks will be worked out.

The very nature of LED's is that they are inconsistent in both color and brightness. What a manufacture must do is set a range of acceptability.

Most businesses will offer a customer satisfaction guarantee. That's what I do. If I sell you something and you don't like it, I'll either replace it, repair it, or offer a refund. I would assume this is LED Dynamics business policy.

What is unacceptable to one person may be okay with someone else. I'm not particularily bothered by a slight greenish color, but someone else may find it totally unacceptable.

In regards to brightness, unless there is nearly a 100% differnce in brightness, our eyes can barely discern the difference. That's the way our eyes work. If you measure one Luxeon Star flashlight at 17 lumens, and another at 22 lumens, you probably cannot tell the difference when looking at them, even though one is quite a bit brighter than the other. So it really is nearly moot. You'll see the difference between 1,000 lux and 1,700 lux, but not 1,000 lux and 1,200 lux. So does it really matter?

What LED Dynamics has produced here is really a remarkable product. A drop in Luxeon Star bulb, that will convert any flashlight into a Luxeon Star flashlight. You may not have the skill level of MrBulk or Lambda, but you can still convert your flashlight to Luxeon Star. Nice! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wayne j

ElektroLumens

03-11-2003, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PhotonBoy said:
I'm interested in Mr. Tsu's comment:

"I personally am getting no sleep because I keep trying the prototypes in different flashlights and combinations."

Knowing that the LED consumes 1 watt and looking at the copper color of its mount, heat dissipation will likely be an issue when choosing the flashlight to use it in. Worst case would be a small plastic light with a plastic reflector; best case would be a 6 D-cell Maglite... the more metal the better. If the temperature of the LED and regulating circuit in the lamp base were to rise above a certain point, say 65C - 70C, its useful lifetime might be severely reduced.

If I'm right about this, LEDdynamics should be spelling out any precautions to current and future buyers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff Jouett did a mod, using a aluminum plate to sink the heat from the emitter on the post to the flashlight body. This might be a viable solution, for use in a Mag, to increase heat sinking.

http://elektrolumens.com/Projects_By_Others/Images/Jeff_J_Mvc-024x.jpg

Here's a link to his mod idea:

Jeff Jouett mod (http://elektrolumens.com/Projects_By_Others/Jeff_Jouett_1.html)

Perhaps this concept could be applied to this EverLED drop in. Put in the EverLED, place the sink on it. He threaded the flashlight, but perhaps it can press in?

Wayne j

LEDmodMan

03-11-2003, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Xing_Tsu said:
2. I still don't get the debate about "meaningless units". Show me a lumen output rating for LED's or Flashlight bulbs and I'll blow holes in the results with all the variables about beam scatter, reflector efficiency and such. Our light meter is weighted to the human eye and outputs millivolts. That's what the units we have for the graph are. The fact is that if you measure the "light output" of the flashlight, that's what the results are. The conditions and the scale are the same for both lights.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, there are several variables to account for when gaging the output of a given light. Some of the CPF members have sort of set a "standard" way of doing this, and we were just hoping we could compare your data to what we already have using this method. We could sit here and debate for days about what testing method is meaningful, but that is relatively pointless, is it not?

What we here at CPF are looking to do is to get an idea of how your Luxeon drop-in "bulb" rates compared to other Luxeon-modified lights some of the members here have already. We are trying to gage the overall brightness of say a mag 3-D with your "bulb" as compared to other similar lights using a 1 watt Luxeon SE. If you spend some time in the "Homemade and Modified Lights" forum you'll get an idea of what I am talking about. I'm sure some curious individual here will disassemble one of the EverLED units, just to see how it works. That's how some of the members here are, curious and inventful, just like the engineers at your company. Yes, we ARE trying to rate your product and gage it's performance based on what we already have. That is the real world. We want to know if we should spend $40 on your product, or go get something else. However, I'm sure once your product hits the market some of us here will do side-by-side comparisons and we'll get the information we desire that way. We were just hoping you would help us out so we wouldn't have to wait, you see, we're an impatient lot, unfortunately. Thank you for your time.

P.S. - As I have asked before, would you be able to enlighten us as to the current delivered to the LS? This would at least give us an idea of where your product might rank in tems of output. Thanks again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
LEDmodMan said:
Jeff & Xing Tsu,

...What kind of current are you providing to the Luxeon? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

LEDmodMan

03-11-2003, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ElektroLumens said:
What LED Dynamics has produced here is really a remarkable product. A drop in Luxeon Star bulb, that will convert any flashlight into a Luxeon Star flashlight. You may not have the skill level of MrBulk or Lambda, but you can still convert your flashlight to Luxeon Star. Nice!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true. I am not trying to be beligerant, I apologize if my previous post seemed that way. <font color="red">Kudos to LED Dynamics.</font> This is a great way to introduce this technology to the general population (AKA non-flashaholics) who may not be so flaslight savvy, simply as an option that can be added as easily as changing a bulb. Excellent. I will most likely eventually buy one of these for my PT VorTec headlamp. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Empath

03-11-2003, 08:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ElektroLumens said:
Most businesses will offer a customer satisfaction guarantee. That's what I do. If I sell you something and you don't like it, I'll either replace it, repair it, or offer a refund. I would assume this is LED Dynamics business policy.

What is unacceptable to one person may be okay with someone else. I'm not particularily bothered by a slight greenish color, but someone else may find it totally unacceptable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guarantee you would have found my purchase from LEDCorp unacceptable. It wasn't slightly green, it was very sickly green. It's billed as brighter than a krypton bulb, but I've got brighter PR lamps from Techass; and they're not even Luxeons.

If a manufacturer or dealer lets a faulty product slip through and honors a replacement guarantee, I've no problem with that. Where I draw the line is when they dispense of quality control figuring unsatisfied customers will return the poor quality ones for replacement. When they do that, it's no longer a $40 lamp. It's $40 plus the time and effort involved in returning it, and then waiting for it. I don't know how much you value your time, but I consider mine valuable enough that the original $40 is but pennies by comparison. That and the fact that a company that deliberately lets poor quality go through figuring the customer will assume quality control, loses my business.

LEDdynamics

03-12-2003, 10:54 AM

"That and the fact that a company that deliberately lets poor quality go through figuring the customer will assume quality control, loses my business. "

We couldn't agree more. All of our products are subjected to intensive quality control procedures, and if we can help it, not a single defective product will ever leave our hands. I am sure that members of this community who have purchased our products in the past can attest to this. Of course no system is perfect, but our reputation as engineers and manufacturers is more important to us than scraping a few extra cents out of a product by using substandard components.

I personally think the debate over the "luxeon lottery" is moot. We have gone through a LOT of luxeons, and since Lumileds refined their process, we have not come up with a single luxeon that was "sickly green". That being said, should we come across a defective Luxeon, we will not pass it on to our customers.

Regarding brightness; we stand by our meters and our graphs. The EverLED is brighter than a Krypton bulb. Many companies have made many claims in the past. Our philosophy is simple; do not make promises you can't keep.

Regarding thermal issues; there are none. Put the EverLED in a plastic flashlight housing. It won't make a difference.

Empath

03-12-2003, 11:01 AM

Thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

LEDmodMan

03-13-2003, 09:43 AM

Third time is a charm...right? What is the current being delivered to the Luxeon? Would it be possible to at least get someone to address to this question? I would appreciate a reply, preferably the true answer, but I would still appreciate a response even if it is something to the effect of "it's proprietary". Thanks.

[ QUOTE ]
LEDmodMan said:
P.S. - As I have asked before, would you be able to enlighten us as to the current delivered to the LS? This would at least give us an idea of where your product might rank in tems of output. Thanks again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
LEDmodMan said:
Jeff & Xing Tsu,

...What kind of current are you providing to the Luxeon? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

P.S. (again) - I think that all CPF members would agree that the "Luxeon Lottery" is still FAR from a moot point until LumiLEDs can get their products' quality more consistant and under control.

Xing_Tsu

03-13-2003, 11:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
LEDmodMan said:
Third time is a charm...right? What is the current being delivered to the Luxeon? Would it be possible to at least get someone to address to this question? I would appreciate a reply, preferably the true answer, but I would still appreciate a response even if it is something to the effect of "it's proprietary". Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's proprietary. That's the short answer. The slightly longer answer is that it is the largest amount of current we can make and still guarantee the led will be kept safely within its thermal ratings.

Plastic flashlights are no problem. We took the cheapest dollar store flashlight we could find and dropped in an EverLED. We put it in the "environerator" at 120F for 24 hours. The plastic wasn't soft or deformed and the EverLED was able to comfortably be handled without causing burns. Of course it was still lit when we pulled it apart.

That being said, a flashlight that can keep the EverLED cool, such as a standard Maglight or Brinkmann will offer slightly better performance. The EverLED will increase its brightness when it safely can.

Before people ask a bazillion questions about what temperature vs. light and graphs, etc., I encourage you
to buy one and try it yourself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif But the key word here is "slightly" better performance. The unit was designed to give the best performance possible in as many different flashlights as possible.

[ QUOTE ]

P.S. (again) - I think that all CPF members would agree that the "Luxeon Lottery" is still FAR from a moot point until LumiLEDs can get their products' quality more consistant and under control.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe I understand what the concern is. I remember the days when we got "floor sweepings" as far as Luxeons were concerned. But, to say our whites will be "luck of the draw" is misleading. Our whites are screened before assembly to meet our quality control requirements. I spoke with the people who do our QC and they were able to "shed light" on the issue.

They said that our emitters are now completely made using the EOS process (phosphor applied to the die at wafer level) versus the "dropped" on method that used to be used. This means that the variations in color due to the viewing angle have been nearly eliminated. Additionally, the variations in the process have been reduced as well. Out of 1000+ white LEDs tested in the last 2 weeks, we have had 2 that were pulled out due to bad color. Apparently that's a new record for us.

There are slight variations due to the fact that the LEDs aren't all from one bin. Our production facility does not currently have the ability to sort LEDs into largely subjective qualities such as "cool" or "warmer" white. We would need to charge more to do this.

I can assure you that every EverLED about to leave to distributors I have personally inspected, and none of the white ones were dim, green, or sickly.

Keep up the questions and comments, and I personally want to thank the CPF members for your support. If we succeed at making tough customers like you folks happy, we will truly have a great product.

BuddTX

03-13-2003, 12:56 PM

Well, that is good news!

Wylie

03-13-2003, 01:12 PM

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif I keep seeing this thread come up and I am patiently, okay impatiently awaiting the high and low domed Q3 models. Any word?

03-13-2003, 01:13 PM

If you succeed at making CPF members happy you will gain for yourself an army of dedicated expert salespeople who will work tirelessly to promote your products everywhere - and do this for you for free! Remember that Flashaholics share their passion for lighting products continually with everyone they meet.

This came up in a thread started by the Surefire rep (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=113300) and it's worth mentioning again here - the CPF can be a powerful engine for success for a company whose products win support here... or quite the opposite for a company whose products don't! I'll quote from my own post in the Surefire thread:

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen OTHER companies (ie: not Surefire) take their most loyal enthusiast customers very much for granted. This is TOTALLY SHORTSIGHTED since the loyal enthusiast types tend to be great at "spreading the word" to others about their favorite products. ...and about their least favorite products.

You simply can't buy advertising as good as the personal attention that a dedicated flashaholic will put into demonstrating (and selling!) their friends on their most beloved light or brand of lights. Seriously, who wants to start counting the number of regular folks who have been introduced to Surefire by a Flashaholic demonstrating the excellent G2? (possibly even converted into a Flashaholic themselves on account of it?)

Howver, the flashaholic community (now 3500 strong and growing rapidly) is a phenomenal marketing engine and also a blade with two edges. While most flashaholics are dedicated and enthusiastic, they are also keenly attuned to features, price, availability, distribution, quality, etc.

An expert who is convinced that a product is poor or a business is somehow lacking can instantly become that company's worst nightmare. Now instead of being out there actively promoting your products they are denouncing you in clear and well-articulated terms for very specific failings at every turn and wherever possible. Remember they are considered experts on this type of product and will have a very credible and extremely efficient effect on their audience.

Ooof, call that a marketer's worst nightmare - a well-educated enemy well-armed with facts now intent on spreading the word about your company's failings. Whoops, you lose. Big.

So what do I think all of this means to Surefire?

1. The CPF is a huge asset to Surefire. Flashaholics love sharing their passion with others and are a very powerful voice for Surefire and a very positive and effective force in promoting Surefire's continued growth and success.

2. Surefire should make efforts to engage the CPF and CPF members' concerns with forthright information and as much candour as possible. (see Peter Gransee of ARC for an example of someone who has taken this concept to heart - and to the bank!) Surefire may not be able to extend ARC's extreme degree of interaction with the CPF but I'm not really suggesting that. It's Peter's forthright attitude, personal attention and honesty that I'm referring to here.

3. Surefire should never take its' CPF enthusiast friends for granted. Think of the flashaholics as 3500 product reps for Surefire. They are so enthusiastic they will happily work for Surefire in this capacity FOR FREE! They just want to get what they are promised on time, on budget.

Flashaholics want to interact with Surefire on product development and feel that they are an important part of "the Surefire process." Believe it, they (we) are - and that is a true fact whether or not Surefire managment sees it.

Cheers Surefire! You're among friends here... don't forget who your friends are.

A.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can easily replace "Surefire" with "LEDdynamics" in the above...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

A.

PhotonBoy

03-13-2003, 01:19 PM

I'm glad to hear that heat is not a big issue with the unit.

Ultimately, people will concentrate on which flashlights to mount the EverLEDs in, with reflector size, focusing ability and type of reflector surface (smooth, dimpled, etc.) being most important, followed by deciding which battery size and number to choose (battery lifetime, weight, size...) For a handheld unit, I'd lean towards a 2 C-cell Mag-lite with NiMH rechargeable batteries -- higher initial cost, but very low upkeep combined with ruggedness.

For a headlamp, I'd likely choose a 3 or 4 cell NiMH AA unit with a focusing reflector.

LEDmodMan

03-13-2003, 01:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ab said:

If you succeed at making CPF members happy you will gain for yourself an army of dedicated expert salespeople who will work tirelessly to promote your products everywhere - and do this for you for free! Remember that Flashaholics share their passion for lighting products continually with everyone they meet.

This came up in a thread started by the Surefire rep (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=113300) and it's worth mentioning again here - the CPF can be a powerful engine for success for a company whose products win support here... or quite the opposite for a company whose products don't! I'll quote from my own post in the Surefire thread:

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen OTHER companies (ie: not Surefire) take their most loyal enthusiast customers very much for granted. This is TOTALLY SHORTSIGHTED since the loyal enthusiast types tend to be great at "spreading the word" to others about their favorite products. ...and about their least favorite products.

You simply can't buy advertising as good as the personal attention that a dedicated flashaholic will put into demonstrating (and selling!) their friends on their most beloved light or brand of lights. Seriously, who wants to start counting the number of regular folks who have been introduced to Surefire by a Flashaholic demonstrating the excellent G2? (possibly even converted into a Flashaholic themselves on account of it?)

Howver, the flashaholic community (now 3500 strong and growing rapidly) is a phenomenal marketing engine and also a blade with two edges. While most flashaholics are dedicated and enthusiastic, they are also keenly attuned to features, price, availability, distribution, quality, etc.

An expert who is convinced that a product is poor or a business is somehow lacking can instantly become that company's worst nightmare. Now instead of being out there actively promoting your products they are denouncing you in clear and well-articulated terms for very specific failings at every turn and wherever possible. Remember they are considered experts on this type of product and will have a very credible and extremely efficient effect on their audience.

Ooof, call that a marketer's worst nightmare - a well-educated enemy well-armed with facts now intent on spreading the word about your company's failings. Whoops, you lose. Big.

So what do I think all of this means to Surefire?

1. The CPF is a huge asset to Surefire. Flashaholics love sharing their passion with others and are a very powerful voice for Surefire and a very positive and effective force in promoting Surefire's continued growth and success.

2. Surefire should make efforts to engage the CPF and CPF members' concerns with forthright information and as much candour as possible. (see Peter Gransee of ARC for an example of someone who has taken this concept to heart - and to the bank!) Surefire may not be able to extend ARC's extreme degree of interaction with the CPF but I'm not really suggesting that. It's Peter's forthright attitude, personal attention and honesty that I'm referring to here.

3. Surefire should never take its' CPF enthusiast friends for granted. Think of the flashaholics as 3500 product reps for Surefire. They are so enthusiastic they will happily work for Surefire in this capacity FOR FREE! They just want to get what they are promised on time, on budget.

Flashaholics want to interact with Surefire on product development and feel that they are an important part of "the Surefire process." Believe it, they (we) are - and that is a true fact whether or not Surefire managment sees it.

Cheers Surefire! You're among friends here... don't forget who your friends are.

A.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can easily replace "Surefire" with "LEDdynamics" in the above...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

A.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't have said it better myself! Thanks Xing Tsu for clearing everything up for us! Like was said in the quote in ab's post, we at CPF are probably going to be the toughest sell for your products, so if we like them I'm sure it will greatly benefit your company. But as he said, it is most definitely a 2 edged sword...

We truely thank you for all your time and hard work (and answering all our pain-in-the a** questions)!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Illuminati

03-14-2003, 12:22 AM

I am glad this forum exists. I was looking at purchasing the Epieon, which I found on ebay, until someone turned me on to the Everled. I have spent (wasted?) a good deal on flashlights before finding CPF. I'm now sold on the Everled. Thanks to all. Now, if I could only get help finding a Doberman locally...

radellaf

03-14-2003, 11:06 AM

Well, I've been wanting to get all six colors, and had set aside $300 "special dollars" from my tax refund before the layoff for those and a Blaster VI, so here goes nothing...
In Xing Tsu I trust, eh?

It's been fun having all the colors of Photon II. I've mostly bought white luxeons, apart from a cyan Inretech mod, but these I sure hope will be the brightest and most versatile pretty colors. The current can't be _too_ low as long as the graphs are accurate, and it's a KPR102 on 2 cells they're talking about. The Epieon starts off bright, but is down to 240mA at 1.3V/cell in a 3 cell setup.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=185084

Electrolumens said:
"Most businesses will offer a customer satisfaction guarantee. That's what I do. If I sell you something and you don't like it, I'll either replace it, repair it, or offer a refund. I would assume this is LED Dynamics business policy. "

I sure hope so. Well, really, I hope I just love the EverLEDs!

One thing I'm keen to find out is, how do you tell the different colors apart? Green/Teal/Blue have 2 leads, white has the phosphor, and Red/Yellow 1 lead, but within each group? Wonder if they're marked or if (like with the Photons) you have to turn them on to check. It'll be fun either way.

And, yeah, I have to agree on the volunteer sales force thing. I convinced a friend to get an Opalec and when he talked about what an improvement it made reading in bed at night I felt as proud as if I'd just earned a fat comission. Even more so knowing that light will be going to the middle-east with him. Hope he, and it, come back in working order. But, I sure feel glad knowing he's got the Opalec rather than a normal minimag bulb.

Xing_Tsu

03-16-2003, 07:16 PM

The crew has been boxing EverLEDs all weekend and the ones for LED Supply (which did the pre-order) are being driven over so they will have them in the morning. I hope the LED Supply guys can ship all that stuff in one day.

More will be arriving each day, so I assume that they will go out first come first serve as promised.

There will be other distributors soon as well.

As to the future, I hear we may offer a limited edition, specially priced box set with all 6 colors.
Someone mentioned batwing and lambertian versions, there are no plans to offer such a variation at this time...
BUT...
Do you think there would be significant interest in LD or HD ? The whole point of the side emitter was for the reflector effect. If the manufacturing guys here me ask this question, they'll kill me. They've been optimzing the production line for the last few weeks and have been working late hours.

There is a way to tell which color is which...so you'll never mix them up. But I guess you'll have to wait until you get yours to see how we did it.

radellaf

03-16-2003, 08:41 PM

Well, check the following for HD & SE comparisons. Seems to me the HD works as well or better with reflectors, though I don't know, you've been trying all sorts of flashlights...is the SE better in more kinds of reflector? Perhaps only the Mag is so nice with the HD?

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=199554

A specially priced set? Well, at least I got a discount for pre-ordering...
Looking forward to 'em!

x-ray

03-17-2003, 04:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Xing_Tsu said:

I personally am getting no sleep because I keep trying the prototypes in different flashlights and combinations. I have a little 1"AA" flashlight that is my favorite. I used it for a whole night one day last week and it wouldn't quit.
I can't wait until you get these things they are better than we expected them to be!

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of the flashlights you've tested can you tell us which worked best with the EverLED ? (I'm thinking that reflector shape/size is going to make a big difference)

Also do textured (orange peel) reflectors work well ?

Thanks

Stainless

03-17-2003, 07:21 PM

Xing_Tsu:

THANKS SO MUCH for all your hard work and patient answering of questions. This product might soon warrant a CPF sub-forum of it's own... as long as someone keeps the "advertising department" under control. If you had a product that actually cured cancer; some advertising agent would feel obligated to state that it also cured AIDS, tax increases, and lying by politicians. DON'T LET THEM DO IT!!! Hopefully the reviews will start showing up shortly - and we can all have a lot of fun. Thanks again.

Stainless

Hemingray

03-18-2003, 04:39 PM

My two EverLEDs arrived today! One white, one cyan/teal.
I am in process in trying them in various flashlites, and so far have been quite impressed. Even in a very cheap 2C Lumilite K-2C, it is impressive and puts the PR-2 incandescent to shame. The white is one of teh whitest LED light sources I have ever seen, no pukey dogpee green, no purple or blue hot spots, all white, no BS. A very faint yellowish ring in some flashlights, but you have to hold it up close to a piece of white paper to see this, at a more normal distance, it is as pure clean white as it comes. The Cyan is also impressive.
Couldn't be simpler, just replace teh PR2 glass thingie with the EverLed and you have light! I havce found one cheap "Energizer" swivelhead double barrel Model IN421, in which the tip and ring are reversed, so the bulb doesn't work in that one. I could either switch the contacts in the head, or install the batteries backwards, so no real problem.

I'll try it in a Garrity 2D I have at work, it has a very good reflector . Should be a real light saber ;-)

The EverLEd doesn't get too hot, after a 20 minute run, it was warm but not hot. And this in an el-cheapo plastic $2 flashlight.

Looks like you have a home run with this product!

/ed B in NH (first post from home)

e=mc²

03-18-2003, 05:17 PM

Ed, we must be on the same wavelength! I've ordered exactly what you did, one white, one cyan/teal. Since they shipped out of Vermont, I guess that explains why you got yours ahead of the pack. Mine are in transit as I track them, they are now two towns away, sched for delivery tomorrow. How do you like the cyan? I have a 1W cyan emitter with optics and love the color, not traffic light blue-green, but true cyan. I hope that the side emitter that foreverled uses is similar. Is it really bright? Just curious. The white one is slated for a rechargeable light which switches on automatically during power failures, and the teal is slated for a table top lantern that I have which can go from spot to area light with the push of a lever.

Ed.

electricdude

03-18-2003, 05:32 PM

Hemingray
do you remember what your order number was ?
mine is 704... i may not see mine this week .... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif
electricdude

James S

03-18-2003, 06:10 PM

looks like I'm even behind you at #742 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif So if I haven't received an email that says it's shipping then it hasn't yet? The yahoo store thing doesn't have any further info saying it has shipped or anything.

But, I'm not that far down the east coast from Vermont /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Maybe a days drive...

Illuminati

03-18-2003, 10:58 PM

My order is 744 and shipping tomorrow. What would be a good 2D or 2C light with an orange-peel reflector and what's the best place to get one online or otherwise?

Hemingray

03-19-2003, 07:12 AM

My order number was either 633 or 663 (it is at home and I'm having a "senior moment"... It helps being about 100 miles away from The Source.

The cyan is bright, and also has a very clean beam, even in cheap $2 plastic flashlites. The white and Cyan are "da ballz"
in a 4AA Dorcy Turtle Lite knockoff, and in a Garrity G-Tech
2D, which has a fairly large diameter faceted reflector. The EverLEd takes care of the difficulty of using a light in which the bulb tip contacts the battery + tip directly. For a plastic flashlite, the G-Tech seems quite rugged, it might survive Craig's test of bashing pipes with it and running it over with a "Rascal". As a comparison, I have a Dale Wheat 36 LED round "IR Illuminator" board populated with 36 7000 mCd Cyan LEDs, and the EverLEd in the Turtle Lite 4AA is brighter by quite a margin (I don't have any photometery gear at home, maybe I can borrow something from work, or bring the test subjects to work). The brightness from 3 to 9 Volts seems constant, slightly dimmer on 1.5VDC. The Cyan seems to be the brightest of all the colors, frommy experience with various Luxeon emitters, stars and star/O's.

The white seems equally bright, and is clean and clear, no obnoxious peegreen, purple, or blue stuff.

I haven't yet tried it in any of the "lantern" tupe lights, it should do well in most. My next visit to WallyWorld, I'll go for another or two of the Ray-O-Vac "kids" lanterns. Those work well with home-made LED "bulbs" that have the LEDs radially pointing outwards, and one pointing up. Heatsinking does not apear to be a problem, it gets warm, but not hot, even in an all plastic light.

They come packaged ina nice fancy heavy plastic "jewel box" that would do a $1000 diamond ring justice. A good look at those boces, they might have an LED light application someday, other than just a fancy presentation.

/ed B in NH