Botach info from BBB

[bewshy]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This Report was developed from various sources, including the business, governmental agencies, and the experience of the company's customers.

For further information contact the Better Business Bureau of the Southland
315 N. La Cadena, Colton, CA, 92324
(909) 825-7280

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Botach Tactical Law Enforcement & Military
3423 West 43rd Place
Los Angeles CA 90008

Business Started: Unknown
File Open Date: 08/11/99
Last Report Date: 01/03/03
Principal Contact: Unknown.

Phone: (323) 294-3542
Fax: (323) 294-3542
EMail: botach@botach.com
Web Address: http://www.botachtactical.com

Bureau ID: 13117095




Nature of Business
This company's business is the retail sale of military and law enforcement supplies.

Bureau File Experience

Based on our standards, we rate this company as having an unsatisfactory business record. An unsatisfactory rating is given when a pattern in the company's customer complaints causes us concern, when the company does not respond to complaints, or when it will not substantiate its advertising claims. In this case, our complaint history for this company shows that although the business has responded to some customer complaints brought to its attention by the Bureau, others remain unanswered. A Better Business Bureau report is based on our file information and experience with an individual company over the past three years. The Bureau does not endorse, recommend, or disapprove of any company, product or service.

Additional Phone Numbers

(323) 294 - 5555 (800) 867 - 7999 (800) 787 - 7156

Additional Trade names

There are no additional Trade Names for this company on file.

Additional Addresses

There are no additional addresses for this company on file.
=1

[Josh]

PROOF that they suck!

[c4igrant]

AMEN, I have been saying that for a long time and would get slammed for saying it on this board. Keep up the good info Josh...

C4

[Monsters_Inc]

Thanks for the heads up - but it's a bit like a science researcher telling us what we already know! images/icons/wink.gif

[Beretta1526]

I have had problems with them in the past myself. Poor shipping practices, inflated shipping charges, poor communication, it goes on... They sell on eBay under several different names.

[holtz58]

I placed an order with them on 1/23, and got an email confirming the order and that has been it so far. The shipping has always been slow with them but this is a bit longer than usual. I called first to check stock and they said they had it. Now I have to call them monday to find out where my order is.

[Marty Weiner]

holtz58..Ask for Lucy when you call Botach. She's very good.

Marty

[holtz58]

Ok, I will give her a call on monday and see what they have to say. Thanks Marty

[this_is_nascar]

Botach's tactics could be easily corrected, if the public were to do only one thing..... stop buying from them.

[this_is_nascar]

Originally posted by logicnerd411:
But they have REALLY cheap products... images/icons/rolleyes.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe true, but the anxioty that I go thru with each order, wondering if it's right or will ship at all, it usually not worth the couple of bucks saved.

[Stingray]

Botach's prices on Surefire lights just went way up. They had the C3-HA for $79 for a long time, now it's $115 images/icons/shocked.gif

[logicnerd411]

Originally posted by Stingray:
Botach's prices on Surefire lights just went way up. They had the C3-HA for $79 for a long time, now it's $115 images/icons/shocked.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So is the E1e. I bought it at $52. Now it's $66!

[logicnerd411]

But they have REALLY cheap products... images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[holtz58]

Just to update from the above post: As Marty suggested I called Lucy to status my order from 1/23. Marty was right, she was very nice! But she informed me that who ever told me the items were in stock was wrong and that they have know idea if or when they might get them in so I cancelled the order. Oh well, I will get over it.

[DieselDave]

Many CPF members love to beat up Botach and then place another order when they see the latest special. (Surefire battery sale was the last biggie) Much of the bad mouthing is well deserved and this_is_nascar had it right in his first post, "Botach's tactics could be easily corrected, if the public were to do only one thing..... stop buying from them."

I have bought from them 4 times with only one delay. The delay would likely have never been resolved if I had failed to follow up with a phone call. They are not good at answering e-mail. The prices are often well ahead of the market. The prices keep us coming back and then as if we were surprised, we bellyache about the service.

Quote
c4igrant,
"AMEN, I have been saying that for a long time and would get slammed for saying it on this board. Keep up the good info Josh..."

I believe you are wrong with that statement. Soon after joining CPF in Sept. I bought a Scorpion from Botach and then posted the positive results of that transaction. You would have thought I was nominating Hitler for sainthood by the comments I received, it was ugly.



Botach's poor service history is WELL documented here at CPF, I suspect more so than the BBB. The old saying, make a customer happy and he tells a friend. Make a customer mad and he tells everyone, holds true for Botach. I believe most folks have a good transaction which is what we expect as the norm so no kudos are awarded. The ones that have a bad transaction post it everywhere.

I believe it's fair to say Botach is way below average in customer service, at least from a typical CPF members perspective but they are doing something right. Botach is still in business and I haven’t heard of anyone saying they were ripped off. It isn't just about numbers of people either. Botach targets a very small part of the market and strongly depends on repeat business, which is evidenced by the weekly e-mails I get. I am not defending Botach except to say I have had good experiences. I know others have had just the opposite experience so I encourage them and those that tend to get nervous to spend a couple of extra bucks and get a piece of mind. Just my .02, plus shipping and on backorder.

[Stingray]

Originally posted by DieselDave:
Many CPF members love to beat up Botach and then place another order when they see the latest special. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm guilty of that, sort of. My first purchase ( I think it was the first) was a horrendous experience. And I posted it in great detail. I was really pissed off at them, and rightfully so. But....those emails kept coming....and those prices were irresistable...and I learned not to buy too much stuff all at once, which is a guarantee of a screwed up order...and to call first...and to cc the owner on every email...you know the rest images/icons/tongue.gif

[Josh]

Originally posted by this_is_nascar:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by logicnerd411:
But they have REALLY cheap products... images/icons/rolleyes.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe true, but the anxioty that I go thru with each order, wondering if it's right or will ship at all, it usually not worth the couple of bucks saved.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm with that images/icons/wink.gif

[Marty Weiner]

I'm in the midst of a problem with them right now. They substituted product and shipped it to me and I wasn't asked nor do I want it. Phone calls and emails prove futile so I'll go to my credit card company for credit and Mr. Botach can drive to my house and pickup his merchandise.

[Josh]

GIVE'EM HELL!

[guncollector]

Marty-

If you didn't order it, and they sent it to you, its yours to keep as a gift. That's the LAW! They cannot legally, in any way/shape/form ask you to return it nor pay for it (but of course, they can refuse to conduct further business with you.)

Do a web search on the "Unordered Merchandise Law". It falls under, specifically, USOC Title 39, Part IV, Chapter 30, Sec. 3009. As a matter of fact, it is UNLAWFUL for anyone (very few exceptions) to send you anything without your consent. So, in fact, they are technically the ones breaking the law.

Just FYI.

[Marty Weiner]

No, I ordered merchandise (Surefire batteries) and they sent me Sanyo's without asking.

[guncollector]

Actually, the illegal bait-and-switch (Sanyos instead of Surefires) is encompassed by the Unordered Merchandise Law.

The UML was written in part to address such bait-and-switch operations--denying unscrupulous vendors from making money as such by legally designating their "switched items" as gifts (which by law they are disentitled to any consideration/money for) to unwitting recipients.

You didn't order the "switched" Sanyos, so technically you're free to keep them as a gift from Botach.

EDIT: Here is more info I found over at the FTC's website:

Substitutions
Q: If a customer orders an item which is backordered, can we substitute an item of similar or better quality without the customer’s consent?

A: For backorders, the Rule provides only two ways of responding to a properly completed order for mail or telephone order merchandise: obtain the customer’s agreement to delayed shipment or provide a full and prompt refund. Unless the customer expressly agrees to the substitution beforehand, you do not have the option of substituting merchandise that is materially different from your advertised merchandise. The term "materially different" means that the merchandise differs in some manner that is likely to affect the customer’s choice of, or conduct regarding, the merchandise. Any product feature would be deemed material if it is expressly mentioned or depicted in advertising. Differences in design, style, color, fabric, or promoted end use also would be deemed material.

[Marty Weiner]

Yikes, free batteries! I'll send in my billing dispute to the bank and mention bait & switch under the Unordered Merchandise Law. Thanks for the info Ron.

Marty

[Stingray]

Hmmmm....If I read this website correctly...it looks like you don't get to keep substituted goods for free where I live (FL).

http://cobrands.public.findlaw.com/newcontent/flg/ch9/st4/tl.html

[Josh]

Sick it to em' images/icons/cool.gif

[Marty Weiner]

I faxed a very specific letter today to Mr. Botach himself referring to this section of the law. As usual I got the typical Botach response - nothing.

Marty

[Marty Weiner]

Stingray..Using your site and going to the California section, it does contradict Federal law by saying that I must pay for substituted product if I choose to accept it.

Marty