NEW R123 with safe chemistry

[AW]

These are new generation R123 with safe chemistry that will not vent with flames ( explode ). The key to this safety feature is that no oxygen will be released from the oxide structure of the cell composition even under abused conditions. No oxygen means no pressure built up and fuel for combustion. Can be used in series on multi-cell applications.

Specifications :

Nominal Voltage : 3.2V
Capacity : 500mAH
Lowest Discharge Voltage : 2.0V
Standard Charge : CC 250mA CV 3.6V
Cycle Life : > 500 cycles
Weight : 16.5g


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/awwan01/PICT0013-1.jpg

Price : $6.00 each ( Shipping is $4.50 for up to six cells )


***You can also get the Combo deal for 2 cells + a charger for $23.00 / set ( Shipping is $5.50/set )

Registered mail w/ tracking is $3 extra. If you choose this option when your package is lost or gone missing, I 'll simply replace your order and it 'll be me to deal with the Post Office. Otherwise, I 'll not be responsible for lost packages during transit.


PayPal address : awwan01@yahoo.com


Specifications for charger:

- 2 Bay independent charging channel
- 250mA charging rate for each channel
- intelligient IC control with full auto-stop
- 4.2V / 3.6V selector for charging 3.7V and 3.0V LiIon cells ( the recessed switch is designed so you won't accidentially move the setting, you'll have to use a ball point pen or paper clip to change the setting manually )
- 100-240V worldwide voltage auto-switch CE and PSE approved

***Selector should be set to 3.0V for charging these LiFePO4 cells


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/awwan01/PICT0012-1.jpg



Note: Do not discharge below 2V. Cells will be damaged when discharged below 2V.


Runtime test of these 3.2V cells on :

Fenix P1 - 40 minutes
TiPD UXOK - 32 minutes till flickering
KL1/VG-FB1 - 30 minutes

[AW]

Some tests :

1) water torture test : the PO4 R123 powers up a Lux I for 30 minutes under water without incident. I 'll examine the cell when it drys completely after 24 hours.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/awwan01/PICT0014-1.jpg



Discharge graph from 1C ( 0.5A ) to 10C ( 5A ) :


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/awwan01/LiFePO4R123-1.jpg

[IsaacHayes]

Cool beans! hehehe. Is this new technology going to show up in other sizes too?

[JimH]

AW, does the charger use "constant current"/"contstant voltage" method or just "constant current" like the DSD chargers.

[AW]

Jim,

The charger is a CC/CV charger.

AW

[Spacemarine]

How fast can they be discharged?

[CroMAGnet]

So the is no over-discharge protection. Will this be forth coming in near future?

Also can we use any of your other chargers?

[BigBoy]

I have been holding out for safer lithium cells... The logo on the charger and branding "UltraFire" - put a smile on my face. The marketing people don't always get it.

[GarageBoy]

3.2V x 2 means only 6.4V..can I use them in P60s, etc?

[That_Guy]

This is good news! As far as I can tell the cells are based on the same phosphate technology as the Valence Saphions (LiFePO4). Energy density is half that of normal li-ions. The voltage is lower than normal li-ions which normally would be a bad thing, but in this case can be a good thing because they can be used as a direct substitute for CR123A batteries in a much wider range of devices than standard R123s.

They should also be able to handle higher discharge rates than standard R123s, which means it may be possible to create high power USL-like "pocket rockets". Four or five in series should be able to handle a 12V 50W bulb without too much trouble, and maybe even a 100W bulb if you don't give a toss about abusing the heck out of your batteries and significantly reducing their cycle life.

[ViReN]

I believe this is a sales thread, however I have some queries. It would be great if Mod's could split this thread in to sales & information;

Now My Question: does this cell have a Protection circuit as with 'explosive' protected cells?

[JonSidneyB]

This could have been done long ago

[cy]

what's the mah rating for these cells? can these be charged with triton? trying to decide how many to get?

thanks,

[Lips]

Might be a good fit for the Gladius...

[AW]

Spacemarine : RC people have been discharging PO4 cells routinely up to 10C without any problem to the cells. However, I don't think you'll get much runtime out of these 500mAH cells.

CroMAGnet : these cells can be used without any protection circuit like NIMH cells. Even if they are overdischarged, they won't be hazardous.

BigBoy : the Ultrafire charger is the only affordable 3.6V charger I can find that will charge these cells. Or you can go for a $230 Schulze ISL 330D LiFe enabled charger.

GarageBoy : haven't tried them in a P6 yet. I believe the P6 is actually a 5V lamp so be careful.

That_Guy : correct.

ViRen : these cells will work just like other rechargeables ( NIMH, Nicad, Pb ) without the need of a protection circuit because they won't ' vent with flames '. The standard precaution of handling batteries still applies.

cy : 500mAH

Lips : they fit inside the gladius. As far as I know, the Gladius electronics will handle up to 7.2V so these cells will work ( a side note : these PO4 cells come offer the charger at 3.7V and will settle down to 3.3V in a few minutes ).

[Archangel]

By "lowest discharge voltage", do you mean "the lowest voltage they will produce" or "the lowest voltage we should let them be drained to"? I'm guessing it must be the latter if there's no circuit.

[AW]

By "lowest discharge voltage", do you mean "the lowest voltage they will produce" or "the lowest voltage we should let them be drained to"? I'm guessing it must be the latter if there's no circuit.

It is the lowest voltage that can be drained to without damge to the cells. If you accidentially goes lower than 2V and it recovers after rest, they are still good. I have tried draining them down to 1.5V and they recovers OK. I drained one further down to 0.5V and it was dead and wouldn't accept charge.

[cy]

triton has a 3.6V setting, will this work with new cells?

what is the working voltage range of these cells? voltage fully charged? to 2.0V?

sure would be sweet, if you could use 6x RS123 (saphion) in Surefire M6 pack?

thanks,

[ciam]

Could this charger charge your other types of 3.0V and 3.7V protected 123s?

By "Runtime test of these 3.2V cells on Fenix P1 yields about 40 minutes," do you mean 40 minutes to 50%, or to the point that it's not advisable to continue operation lest the cells might die?

Also, with a 10C discharging rate, does it mean that they could be used in essentially any settings including those incandescent light that draws large startup current?

[AW]

cy,

The Triton 3.6V setting is actually charging the cell up to 4.1V. The 3.7V setting is charging up to 4.2V for regular LiIon/ LiPo. I have tried charging these PO4 cells using the 4.2V setting up to 4.2V. The voltage will gradually settle down to 3.37V in about an hour. These cells will not be overcharged, however, routinely charging them above the recommended voltage will reduce their rated cycles.

Off the 3.6V charger, it reads 3.6V and will settle down to 3.37V ( fully charged ). Nominal voltage is 3.2V under load.

AW

[AW]

Could this charger charge your other types of 3.0V and 3.7V protected 123s?

By "Runtime test of these 3.2V cells on Fenix P1 yields about 40 minutes," do you mean 40 minutes to 50%, or to the point that it's not advisable to continue operation lest the cells might die?

This Ultrafire charger will charge regular protected / unprotected 3.7V R123s. It will not charge my 3.0V regulated / protected R123 which requires a 4.4V charger.

The 40 minutes runtime on a P1 is the point where I observed dimming. The moment I pulled the cell it reads 2.02V and climbing.

[OldGreyGuy]

AW, Thanks for all the great replies so far, this looks very interesting for those folks who have been concerned about Li-Ion chemistries and some of the reported venting incidents.

The only technical question I have is regarding the ability of these cells to hold their charge. Are they similar to Li-Ions and hold their charge or are they more like NiMH cells and have a fairly rapid standby discharge rate?

The sales question I have is if I order the package plus 2 extra cells how much will shipping be?

I also note that you have not put your paypal mail address at the top of the thread, I assume it is the same as in all your other threads?

Apart from that I like the type of charger that does not need a wall-wart.

Thanks: OldGreyGuy

[AW]

OldGreyGuy,

1) these cells will hold their charge like normal LiIon cells
2) shipping on the combo will be the same $5.50 with extra cells
3) PP address added. Thanks for reminding me :-)
4) this charger is the type you'd like - they don't have a wall-wart, just a connecting power cord.

AW

[DFiorentino]

Is this the beginning of seeing more sizes in this chemistry in the near future.:poke:

:)
-DF

[AW]

Is this the beginning of seeing more sizes in this chemistry in the near future.:poke:

:)
-DF

I certainly do hope so if these move well :grin2:

[cy]

still trying to figure how to charge these, without buying yet another charger...

may have to spring for the shultz and get it over with. thought I did that when I purchased triton.

[bmstrong]

Glorious!

[Nell]

I just saw the nail test on a r123 and it just exploded upon penetration and flamed out.

Are these the cells to eliminate all those safety issues with the old chemistry?

I would hate to invest in a whole new set of chargers and batteries again. I am surprised that no one came out with a charger set up for multi li-ion cells of various configeration, from the AAA to 18650 sizes. (hint,hint)

[cy]

AW, have you tried these in Surefire M6?

[AW]

Nell : I haven't tried the nail test myself but I believe these cells won't explode with the LiFePO4 chemistry. The accompanying charger will also charge regular 3.7V protected/unprotected cells.


cy : I haven't tried them in my M6 yet because I have modded my M6 to run a WA1111 and 6x17500. Even if they work, it 'll be only 6 minutes runtime on the MN21.

[Nell]

So the charger will work with the "old" li-ion cells that maxed out to 4.2V?

Any idea if 18650, 14500,17670 will be available? would love to have one charger to do it all even if it cost more. Too many chargers already.

Thanks.
Nell : I haven't tried the nail test myself but I believe these cells won't explode with the LiFePO4 chemistry. The accompanying charger will also charge regular 3.7V protected/unprotected cells.


cy : I haven't tried them in my M6 yet because I have modded my M6 to run a WA1111 and 6x17500. Even if they work, it 'll be only 6 minutes runtime on the MN21.

[spoonrobot]

Any idea if 18650, 14500,17670 will be available?


Count me in as curious on this too.

[AW]

Nell,

The charger will charge regular LiIon cells to 4.2V just by flipping a switch.
Saphion 18650s are already available for quite some time.

AW

[ciam]

I would hate to invest in a whole new set of chargers and batteries again. I am surprised that no one came out with a charger set up for multi li-ion cells of various configeration, from the AAA to 18650 sizes. (hint,hint)

would love to have one charger to do it all even if it cost more. Too many chargers already.


If someone needs to be convinced if this is in demand, I hope to erase some of the hesitation. As things are now, you may have to carry 3 chargers for your Li-Ion cells....

[AFAustin]

[QUOTE=AW]This Ultrafire charger will charge regular protected / unprotected 3.7V R123s. It will not charge my 3.0V regulated / protected R123 which requires a 4.4V charger.


Hi, AW. I'm a bit confused here---the charger description states: "4.2V / 3.6V selector for charging 3.7V and 3.0V LiIon cells". If it doesn't charge your protected 3.0v cells, what 3.0v cells will it charge?

Thanks.

[AW]

[QUOTE=AW]This Ultrafire charger will charge regular protected / unprotected 3.7V R123s. It will not charge my 3.0V regulated / protected R123 which requires a 4.4V charger.


Hi, AW. I'm a bit confused here---the charger description states: "4.2V / 3.6V selector for charging 3.7V and 3.0V LiIon cells". If it doesn't charge your protected 3.0v cells, what 3.0v cells will it charge?

Thanks.

Can't answer this one because I have no experience with other 3V cells out there in the market. My 3V regulated/protected R123s have to be charged by a 4.4V charger because it use a step down voltage regulator ( 0.7V ). You won't get a full charge if you are using a charger with lower charging voltage.

[UWAK]

Hello AW, have you ever tested this battery to let's say E1L? How about the runtime? Cheers.

Frids

[AW]

Hello AW, have you ever tested this battery to let's say E1L? How about the runtime? Cheers.

Frids

30 minutes runtime on E1L when it shows dimming. Reads 2.3V when removed.

[OldGreyGuy]

OldGreyGuy,

1) these cells will hold their charge like normal LiIon cells
2) shipping on the combo will be the same $5.50 with extra cells
3) PP address added. Thanks for reminding me :-)
4) this charger is the type you'd like - they don't have a wall-wart, just a connecting power cord.

AW
AW,

OK, I'll take one for the team :)

My McLuxIII PD uses the Wiz2x2 driver and so cuts out when the voltage drops below 2.5v. Should allow me to use these LifePO4 cells without problems

:paypal: just sent for:

Combo deal for 2 cells + a charger $23.00
2 additional cells $12.00
Shipping $5.50
Registered $3.00

Total of $43.50

And forgot to identify myself as OldGreyGuy :(

Regards, Greg

[AW]

OldGreyGuy,

Order shipped. Thanks!

AW

[StoneDog]

Has anyone tested these with a SF P90 or P91?

[cy]

how much current will these new cells sustain? 2C?

[maverick215]

a few questions... perhaps obvious, perhaps not.
1) Specifications for charger say "2 Bay independent charging channel"
does this mean you can charge a single cell at a time, if desired?
2) I believe this has been covered, but just to be crystal clear: this charger will safely charge the cells from your other thread "Protected R123A ( 750 mAH----- $ 6.00 each"
and lastly
3) how many 'extra' cells could be ordered and still have just the 5.50 for shipping?
thanks in advance,
Mav

[AW]

StoneDog : haven't tried them in P90/P91. The combined voltage of 3 cells of 9.6V maybe too high for them.

cy : the RC people have been discharging LiFePo4 cells for 10C without any problem. However, you won't see much runtime out of these 500mAH cells under such a high load.

maverick215 : 1) the 2 -bay independent charger can charge one or two cells together. Since the channels are independent, charging cells with different state of discharge is acceptable.
2) yes. The charger will charge regular protected/ unprotected LiIon cells including my 750mAH protected R123 as well as RCR2s ( need 8mm spacer ).
3) upon to 6 extra cells.

[stockae92]

i am all confused now?!

so we don't need regulation and protection circuit for this new chemistry only cause they (new chem) won't burst into flames?

these can be used in high craw draw application but still can't power P61 with 2 of them because the voltage underload is still too high? (then somebody should develop R123 that will work with SF lights :) )

i don't remember but how's the voltage of 3V regulated R123 compare to the new chem ones?

[Geologist]

Sounding great! Any way to have someone do some discharge curves? How quickly under various loads the battery will drop below, 3, 2.75, 2.5V, etc. Many of the drivers have been designed around the "hotter" Li-Ion that start around 4.0V......

Thanks AW!

[AW]

stockae92 : These cells will provide enough current to power P61. The problem is the voltage of these 2 cell bulb are actually 5V. If they do make some 6V bulbs, these will be wonderful.

Geologist : Discharge graph from 1C to 10C added to post#2.

[Geologist]

stockae92 : These cells will provide enough current to power P61. The problem is the voltage of these 2 cell bulb are actually 5V. If they do make some 6V bulbs, these will be wonderful.

Geologist : Discharge graph from 1C to 10C added to post#2.

Thanks!

[bigr]

Will 2 of these work in a SF A2? Will a Shulze isl 6-330d-RS work for charging them? thanks Richard

[AW]

Will 2 of these work in a SF A2? Will a Shulze isl 6-330d-RS work for charging them? thanks Richard

The Shultz isl 330d has the LiFe charging profile and it 'll work on these cells. They are too wide too fit inside the A2.