New Products from SureFire

[SureFireMarketin]

I've read a number of posts commenting on the desire for more information regarding new products from SureFire. The best way to find out about new product releases is to register your e-mail in SureFire's product release/updates e-mail list. Upcoming releases include the E2o Outdoorsman, President's Selection Gift Set, A2 Aviator, and more.

To sign up go to http://www.surefire.com. In the bottom left corner of the home page you will find a window to enter your e-mail. You will then be taken to a page that lets you select the product categories of interest to you. I suggest that you select all categories. Thanks for your interest and for choosing SureFire.
Regards,
Derek McDonald
SureFire
Marketing Coordinator

[this_is_nascar]

Thanks Derek. I hope you and SureFire continue to have a presense here on CPF. You will never be able to give us too much information. Now, if you could convince manufacturing to come up with a 3-cell E3E........................

[Sigman]

Ditto the E3E request, as well as the KLx series with battery housings included and/or the option to purchase the housing "complete" w/o the head so customers do not have to "bit & piece" the assembly. Thanks!

[Sean]

Originally posted by Sigman:
Ditto the E3E request, as well as the KLx series with battery housings included and/or the option to purchase the housing "complete" w/o the head so customers do not have to "bit & piece" the assembly. Thanks!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That would be the L1, now if we just knew when it was coming out. images/icons/grin.gif

[camisdad]

E3E! E3E! E3E!

[McGizmo]

E3e/Kl1 combo marketed as the "long nighter" images/icons/smile.gif How about it Derek? Are you lurking?

images/icons/grin.gif EDIT: Only 1/2" longer than a mini mag and that includes the tail switch!

[Alan]

CAN'T AGREE MORE! Sorry for using cap as I really want it. With E3E/KL1, users could use 3 cells or 2 A cells ...

Alan

[Bushman]

e3e

[McGizmo]

Guys,

IMHO there are many permutations of light configurations that SureFire can and has made, at least in the prototype stage. We need to bear in mind that SureFire is a business and not likely to cater to small demands placed on them by the likes of us. However, SureFire has untapped markets beyond their tactical base and hopefully they will at least listen to our pleas.

The name E3e implies a complete flashlight with incandescent lamp options. This would likely dilute the product offering from SF even more. Once the door was opened, we would be asking for 3 cell LOLA's and HOLA's, 5W Luxeon bezels and what have you. images/icons/grin.gif

I suggested the "long nighter" as a stand alone or specific flashlight, much akin to the new E2o. If we can convince SF marketing that this is a viable offering, maybe they would consider it. Once we get our hands on the E3L, what we do with it is our business.... images/icons/grin.gif

Uh..... Hello Derek??????? graemlins/icon15.gif

[Skid]

One product I would really like to see would be the M6/2 proto. It would use lamp assemblies already in production (MN15/MN16). The bezel is already in production (M3T/M4/M6). The battery carrier is already in production (MB10). The switch and so forth. The only piece that isn't currently in production is the main body which would have almost no r&d work needed since the only change from the M6 body would be the length.

I really like the M3 but find it awkward with the turbo head. It seems to be out of balance. Plus I like the diameter of the M6 better. To me it is just more comfortable to hold.

Just my $0.02

Skid

[SuRgE]

E3E/KL Yeah baby!

[Josh]

E3e? I just want my A2!!!!!!!

[Sean]

Yes, I want an E3e too...Er, I mean three!! graemlins/icon14.gif graemlins/icon14.gif graemlins/icon14.gif graemlins/icon14.gif

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.millinship/glowbugse3.jpg

[this_is_nascar]

That baby does look good.

[Chris M.]

What about the fabled E5 images/icons/grin.gif

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.millinship/e5.jpg

images/icons/tongue.gif

[this_is_nascar]

No, I don't think so. I wouldn't use that, however I would use the E3E.

[Josh]

ChrisM, LOL!!!

[jtivat]

What about the M12? http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SADdAo4VrApI!zgAIkmTe2R*LgD0Va8Gf6veN7oUfYxWhwRDc *35OAJAQK6s5sRB9WX2zmdud38fwTKshtI1AOI7RL8P11bMkb5 OsX2zP!w3AAAA*3FaAg/M6-test.jpg

[B@rt]

Nice design for a HID transplant... images/icons/cool.gif images/icons/grin.gif

[2dogs]

Something completly waterproof, say to 100 feet. Minimal number of places water could get in. P60/61 size or larger LA. 3 123 cells or a rechargeable battery stick. Wrist lanyard loop on the end. Body mounted switch. Hard coat anodised. Glass lens, replaceable. This light would be a work horse, not a tactical light. If rechargable, smart charger with piggyback for spare battery.

[Gandalf]

I signed up for SureFire's E-mail list well over 6 months ago, and to date I have received a total of 3 E-mails, one of which was simply an automated standard 'welcome to SureFire's mailing list' E-mail. I received absoltely *nothing* about the release of the new KL1, 2 and 3 at the time; I got my information from reading the forum here. The 'service' offered by SureFire certainly hasn't been anything that could be considered 'useful'. graemlins/icon13.gif

I have also received no information from SureFire about the new L1. Great job, guys. graemlins/icon13.gif

IMHO, signing up to receive 'information' from SureFire about new products or 'sale' items is simply a waste of time, if you are expecting to actually *receive* any useful information. graemlins/icon13.gif images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/confused.gif graemlins/bluedead.gif graemlins/twak.gif

[avusblue]

Couldn't agree more with Gandalf. Surefire, I love your products -- and own 5 of them so far, but your information sharing stinks! Examples:

1) Still no info on their website regarding the L1 (which is in production) or the A2 (which is "supposedly" coming soon) -- even if you do a search for "L1" or "A2"!

2) Same comment on the alleged "e-mail list" as above

3) I've requested a Surefire catalog 3 times so far, and never received a single one.

Surefire, you're not really trying very hard!!

[Sigman]

Gandalf & avusblue - Ditto, Ditto, Ditto...

I propose getting everyone here to update their "interests"/signup for the "email" lists each time they are online.

Do you think that would send them a message?

[Daniel Ramsey]

I think that may work Sigman, even though there is many new hybrids available like the Nuwaii and such from Cabelas the bottom line is that they are not Surefire! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif
Which would a person rather have, a copy or the real thing?

Hopefully SF will jump ahead even more so with hybrids [LED+Xenon]

[GJW]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Still no info on their website regarding the L1 (which is in production)

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be so sure about the "in production" part.
I sent mine back for repair and they still haven't replaced it because, according to them, there are none available.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...............
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

[fasteddie]

I haven't posted here in months, but this topic got to me. The surefire newsletter is as worthless as their website. And almost as worthless as marketing people in general. For a surefire marketing type to pop in here, tout the company line, and bug out is not in keeping with the spirit of this web site, and shows a lack of understanding of their customer base that hangs around CPF.

The sf aviator A2 is the perfect example. Like many of you, I want one, and have had it on order at a dealer for a long time. Has anyone from surefire bothered to keep us up to date on availability? I have not received a newsletter about it. I have not received a newsletter about the KLx or the Lx either.

Peter Gransee on the other hand spends a lot of time around here, is more than open about schedules, changes, etc. Surefire, don't insult our intelligence. Either do it right or stay away.

[PieThatCorner]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

[Quickbeam]

"the bottom line is that they are not Surefire!
Which would a person rather have, a copy or the real thing?"

Just a note - I wouldn't say that the Nuwai lights are copies of SF. They aren't the same quality and the A2 is regulated, so they aren't really copies of each other at all, but they have the same basic funcitonality (bright xenon/dim LED selectable in a 2x123a light).

On an aside, I'm really getting tired of people trying to deify Surefire lights - the "real thing" is whatever suits a person's needs. If for your purposes you can forego the A2 regulation, pyrex lens, and HA-III anodize, you can get the AL-606 for $80 cheaper than the A2...

If you want to buy a Porche, buy a Porche, but don't tell me it's sooooo much better than a Chevy just because you think you look good in it driving to work in 10mph rush hour traffic.

The A2 will be a nice light when it comes out, I'm sure. No doubt it will rate highly against other lights due to it's features, but let's knock it off with the "surefire is holier than thou" attitude. It's getting annoying.

[Anarchocap]

QB,

I see this attitude all the time in the Gun World too. Especially when it comes to Colt products. Anyone who is aware of the Colt saga over the past 2 decades knows they have had their butt kicked all over the 1911 Handgun market by Kimber, who entered the market with new manufacturing techniques that allowed for a higher quality product at a lower price. "If its not a Colt, its just a copy" can be heard by die-hard Colt fans. And its fine with me to have a copy that performs the same or better than the original at a lower price.

Brand loyalty behavior that functions regardless of the quality/cost/performance ratio is usually an ego thing.

X product was supposed to make Y person into somebody they are not already because they don't own X product. Y person must justify to the world that they believe what X product claims and are the person X product says they are, otherwise that would be admitting they were duped into spending money on a marketing scheme.

If SureFire was the end-all, you wouldn't own another flashlight. The fact is, SureFire isn't the end all. I do own other lights that perform as good as or better than SureFires at lower prices. They are an extremely innovative company, with extremely overengineered and expensive lights. Most SF lights are over-kill for 99.9% of the population, and the company obviously knows this and doesn't even try to cater to other markets. Their G2 "low-end" light is positioned at the extreme high end of the general population's flashlights.

Brand loyalty can be a very foolish way to spend more money than you need to. If you've got that money, or SureFire offers something you want or need and can't find somewhere else, by all means purchase a SureFire. You won't be sorry. But for 99.9% of us, that need is going to be more likely a want and matter of perception than anything grounded in reality.

[McGizmo]

[ QUOTE ]
fasteddie said:
....................... Either do it right or stay away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eddie, it would seem to me that until production is up and running and the pipeline is filled, it would be premature to state that a new product is available.

I am of the opinion, in light of some of the SF bashing lately, that the smart and "professional" approach to SF's direct involvement with CPF is a combination of your suggestion:

It seems likely that "doing it right" would be to stay away. Perhaps this is what they are doing.

I find it interesting that Peter is identified as the reference point here in how a manufacturer should relate to the CPF. He does have a special relationship here but to consider this as the standard for all flashlight manufacturers to follow is not realistic, IMHO.

Bottom line for me is let the flashlights speak for themselves. Vaporware and pre-production units have no voice.

- Don

[Anarchocap]

Don,

Even though Peter is the model, look at the chaos that was created with the LS3 botched sale issues. It happened twice!

IMHO, you can't win. You aren't going to please everyone everytime.

NPIs (new product introductions) should be announced when they are ready to ship. Otherwise, they should be considered under development, or "concept" lights with no scheduled release date. If a release date for development lights is given, it should be as general as possible, like 2H 2003. That gives six months and no real commitment.

[Beretta1526]

Gun Nut,

I think you have the right idea. I am the epitomy of owner loyalty, but I don't take too well to getting screwed around. I certainly won't wait 3-5 times the "expected" time frame for something I can't even see in person to check it out for myself to make a more educated purchase. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

Ah, it is all about your immediate perception anyway. I'll stop now before I start to babble.

[SureFireMarketin]

Hi Guys,

According to the brainwashing algorithm taught to all marketing majors, it’s time to pop in here again to tout the company line. But before I try to separate you from your money, I’d like to make a few comments and hopefully answer a few questions/concerns.

(1) The SureFire e-mail list is intended to announce new products, specials, and (available) items of interest AFTER dealers have been notified of a new product’s availability and have been given a chance to place an order. Dealers are notified of availability first, several weeks later an e-mail goes out to everyone who has signed up for the list. At first this was not the case, but our dealers spoke and we listened. Dealers are the backbone of our distribution, dealers are given the opportunity to order product first, dealers get priority. SureFire.com is not intended to be a source of competition to our dealers: it is intended to fill the gaps in our distribution network, and to be the most complete source of SF product info for buyers researching a flashlight purchase. When we have a predetermined amount of stock available we will send out an e-mail.

(2) I read a fair bit of grumbling – some of it bordering on malicious – about the cost of a SureFire – referred to as an “investment” by us soulless marketing types – in comparison to other brands. Typically these rants point out that the brand in question has this or that feature like a SureFire, or is almost as good in one respect or another, etc. That’s all fine and good, after all, the consumer should have choices and competition drives everyone to make a better product. But the irony is -- from my perspective – that almost all of the products mentioned are copying one or more features first brought to market by SureFire, sometimes 15 years after the fact. Nothing wrong with that, but understand that innovation costs. Being first to market costs. Brilliant engineers cost. Quality costs. And lastly, Made in America costs. Most members of CPF love new, very cool products. SureFire delivers those products first. What’s the problem?

The analogy I draw is this: I would like to drive a Ferrari, I cannot afford a Ferrari. When I see someone else driving a Ferrari I do not go ballistic about the evil Ferrari overlords, I do not howl at the moon – I usually just say, “Cool Ferrari.” A SureFire flashlight is a Ferrari that can be had for under $100. You may not need all the engineering that goes into it, or the MilSpec Type III hard-anodizing, or the shock-isolation, etc. But you can have it if you want it, and many of us do. It’s a choice. Don’t want it, don’t buy it.

(3) Availability. Yes it is frustrating, and on that point I have nothing to say but we’re sorry, we understand your frustration, and we are working hard to meet demand. The fact is that more people are buying SureFires than ever before – including the U.S military. We are working on it.

(4) Vaporware. If we announce a product before it is perfected, we get grief. If we wait until it is ready, we get grief. As Gun Nut pointed out, you can’t win. And the reason something does not make it out in the projected timeframe is not always the result of trying to perfect it, sometimes we have to divert resources to provide an unforeseen product for the military.

(5) Why don’t I answer all of the questions and concerns here at CPF (listen up FastEddie)? (1) I don’t have time (2) It’s a no-win situation. Case in point -- this thread. This is the Manufacturer's Announcements section, I made an announcement that I thought would be beneficial to those wanting more SureFire info. What did I get for it? Baseless commentary from a few, reasoned logic from a few more, and an attack on not just myself, but – by default -- the two hundred employees of SureFire, that is why I don’t interact with CPF more often. Which is unrelated to the fact that I signed no agreement to answer all of the questions here. It is after all, a forum. That said, I visit CPF at least once a week to see if there are any valid issues that I can do something about. In about two months we will have completed a redesign of surefire.com; many of the improvements were brought to my attention here at CPF. (Does that mean it will be designed exactly to fit the desires of hard-core lighting fans? No, of course not, because hard-core lighting fans are not the only people who use the site, but it will reflect your input).

(6) Do I think we can’t improve? Hell no, it bothers me every time I hear that someone did not get an e-mail release or that they ordered a catalog three times and are still waiting. I have forwarded the catalog issue to our fulfillment people and I backtracked the e-mail issue this week. Out of the e-mails sent, a number are returned because your ISP will not accept that e-mail. If you signed up more than once and have not gotten anything contact your ISP. We have faults, but they are of the typical business variety and not the plotting to rule the world kind -- and we are ready and willing to work on them.

That’s all I’ve got to say on the issue. I appreciate CPF as a whole and I’m hoping you’ll keep buying our products. But I will not be a regular poster. I’ll read and learn, and if an issue comes up that really must be answered, then I’ll answer it. Otherwise I will leave it to CPF members --such as size15 -- who are in the know to answer questions.

Regards,

Derek McDonald

[Stingray]

Those of us that are into sportbikes and computers know that new products never seem to come out at the times initially announced, and some get announced and never come out. That's the way it is with constantly developing cutting edge technology and Surefire falls within that category. This is nothing new, just the nature of the beast. Thousands of cutting edge technology companies operate this way, and some of it is based on strategic marketing decisions from the viewpoint of the long run big picture, some is short turn profit driven, or cash flow etc., and some of it is just the result of changing tunes along the way. Does it pay to do it this way?...sometimes yes, sometimes no, the consumer base as a whole ultimately decides.

I'm not taking sides here, just stating my observations as a consumer over the last several decades.

Do you know how long I have been waiting for the SV1000 (a motorcycle) to hit the market since it was announced? Way longer than I've been waiting for the new Surefires. And it looks like I'll be waiting even longer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif ...but I'll still wait and buy it, and it'll be worth it.
Cheers,
Steve

[treek13]

Hi Derek,

Just wanted to say excellent post.

I personally found it to be quite well reasoned and very helpful. I think you have successfully recognized the no-win (damned if you; damned if you don't) situations and have explained your (and I assume Surefire's) positions on some of the other issues that people have had concerns about. I get the impression that some of the problems are simple misunderstandings that hopefully you have just helped to clear up (such as the e-mail list).

So thank you for posting and please continue to do so,
Pat

Oh yeah, please remember that forums like this are often an outlet for grumbling (um...I am..um...well, you know...guilty of doing that here from time to time) so please don't let it get to you. You seem to be doing a good job of seperating out the legitimate concerns; may you continue to do so. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[Anarchocap]

Derek,

I for one would like to say thanks to you and SureFire for taking some of your valuable time to post on this forum.

I understand SureFire's market niche, and expect nothing to change, nor do I think it should. Your lights may be expensive, but to the people who really need to use them, they sell themselves.

I don't expect a company to be perfect, and I think yours has done more than its fair share of communication about your products to this forum.

Your company has great, innovative, bleeding edge products, and you stand behind what you sell. There is always room for improvement, but I like to give credit where it is due. I look forward to your continued participation in the forum!

[ab]

Yes, thanks to Surefire for your continued presence and support here. I really like your company, your focus on engineering quality, your products (I own several), etc. Keep up the good work!

OK, having made that disclaimer - here's some of my own experience with products, marketing, and enthusiast user groups...

I have seen OTHER companies (ie: not Surefire) take their most loyal enthusiast customers very much for granted. This is TOTALLY SHORTSIGHTED since the loyal enthusiast types tend to be great at "spreading the word" to others about their favorite products. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif ...and about their least favorite products. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

You simply can't buy advertising as good as the personal attention that a dedicated flashaholic will put into demonstrating (and selling!) their friends on their most beloved light or brand of lights. Seriously, who wants to start counting the number of regular folks who have been introduced to Surefire by a Flashaholic demonstrating the excellent G2? (possibly even converted into a Flashaholic themselves on account of it?)

Howver, the flashaholic community (now 3500 strong and growing rapidly) is a phenomenal marketing engine and also a blade with two edges. While most flashaholics are dedicated and enthusiastic, they are also keenly attuned to features, price, availability, distribution, quality, etc.

An expert who is convinced that a product is poor or a business is somehow lacking can instantly become that company's worst nightmare. Now instead of being out there actively promoting your products they are denouncing you in clear and well-articulated terms for very specific failings at every turn and wherever possible. Remember they are considered experts on this type of product and will have a very credible and extremely efficient effect on their audience.

Ooof, call that a marketer's worst nightmare - a well-educated enemy well-armed with facts now intent on spreading the word about your company's failings. Whoops, you lose. Big. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

So what do I think all of this means to Surefire?

1. The CPF is a huge asset to Surefire. Flashaholics love sharing their passion with others and are a very powerful voice for Surefire and a very positive and effective force in promoting Surefire's continued growth and success.

2. Surefire should make efforts to engage the CPF and CPF members' concerns with forthright information and as much candour as possible. (see Peter Gransee of ARC for an example of someone who has taken this concept to heart - and to the bank!) Surefire may not be able to extend ARC's extreme degree of interaction with the CPF but I'm not really suggesting that. It's Peter's forthright attitude, personal attention and honesty that I'm referring to here.

3. Surefire should never take its' CPF enthusiast friends for granted. Think of the flashaholics as 3500 product reps for Surefire. They are so enthusiastic they will happily work for Surefire in this capacity FOR FREE! They just want to get what they are promised on time, on budget.

Flashaholics want to interact with Surefire on product development and feel that they are an important part of "the Surefire process." Believe it, they (we) are - and that is a true fact whether or not Surefire managment sees it.

Cheers Surefire! You're among friends here... don't forget who your friends are.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

A.

[WhiteAsSnow]

Derek,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to some of the concerns expressed here. It was appreciated.

-SW

[Rothrandir]

derek, that is a well justified post.

i understand that it can be frustrating when you try to provide cpf with information that can help them, and while your here, they take the time to make remarks (many of them off topic) that are detrimantal to everyones good, and somethimes just plain rude and stupid.

another example is when the nye lube guy came in to tell us about nye lubes. i understand that this was likely only an attempt at marketing, but still, he took the time, and if people welcomed him, we could have possibly had a good member. someone mentioned that they are expensive, someone else said that they are too expensive...eventually, people were making off-color comments and not only critising the price of the product, but making rude jokes and making the nye guy feel totally unwelcome, i don't think he has posted since.

surefire has done great things, and while they are as expensive as hell ( /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ), i will continue to purchase because i know what i am getting, and i know that it cost a lot to make.

cpf as a whole is a great group of people, we all get along quite well, and there aren't many flame threads. this has increased with the number of people, but it is still very low compared to other forums. it is a family here.
but it does happen, it disgusts me when, otherwise good people, will say horrible and rude things.
please, give them a chance /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif we are a very demanding group, and some of us think we know everything and can say "there is no reason to make a chunk of aluminum with batteries and a lamp cost $200", but you and i, as well many others understand the reason for the cost, and are willing to pay for it. in another thread, i was compelled to explain some of why sf's are so expensive, and someone quoted what i said and tried to argue with everything i said...they said that they didn't like sf's all that much because they didn't have a need for the ha3, pyrex, chemkote, and whatever else, when it was only my intention to justify the cost.

your involvement in this forums is good for surefire and cpf! i hope you start to visit a little more often, and let people know you on a more personally level. i think flashaholics have more of a tendancy to back comapanies than people /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif i rarely ever see people bash people here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SureFireMarketin]

Thank you for your kind responses.

For the record, I agree that CPF is an important asset for SureFire, both in terms of getting the word out (or not), and for product feedback/development as well. I use forums such as this to do advance research for any of my own mid- to big ticket purchases, so I'm in tune with the power of user groups. Our current method of communicating with CPF is to provide product samples and direct communication to certain moderators and regular posters, and to let them post their own views/opinions. So, although we don't personally answer all SureFire-related posts, it is not a case of "we don't care".

My frustration at some of the more vitriolic posts stems from the fact that I am aware -- on a daily basis -- of SureFire's commitment to building the world's finest flashlights, and -- as a former SureFire Institute trainer -- I have seen SureFire's commitment to the military and law enforcement community in terms of cutting-edge products and training, a commitment that has been unmatched by any other flashlight manufacturer.

That does not mean that I do not acknowledge that we sometimes make mistakes and have room for improvement, and it also does not mean that I have an expectation not to see valid complaints about product/service issues posted on CPF. After all, if you don't tell us, how can we improve? Even the occasional flame is to be expected -- and may be deserved.

One last thing about freely sharing company information: in many cases it is just not appropriate from a business standpoint. After all, we do seem to be the most copied flashlight manufacturer. Limiting information sharing is sometimes a necessary requirement of being competitive.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback and for giving me an opportunity to answer.

Regards,

Derek McDonald
Marketing Manager

[Monsters_Inc]

"After all, we do seem to be the most copied flashlight manufacturer."

And yet not the one spending the most time in courtrooms... strange that.

[shiftd]

[ QUOTE ]
Onyx said:
"After all, we do seem to be the most copied flashlight manufacturer."

And yet not the one spending the most time in courtrooms... strange that.

[/ QUOTE ]

second that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[fasteddie]

Derek, I am glad to see all of your honest, sincere, and valuable information.

I am glad you took off your marketing hat for a while, set the record straight, and argued the pros and cons of all the many suggestions and requests debated here. I think that's what we were looking for.

** edited by fasteddie: For those of you who have been following this soap opera, Derek and I have settled our differences offline. He's cool, and has given us an honest look into the dilemmas Surefire faces in marketing leading edge products. I thank him for being so frank. Rare from a marketing type. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif **

[fasteddie]

For the sake of balance, and to show that I'm not really such a bad guy, I have to point out that I received the Surefire announcement about the L1 and it was a good piece of work; informative and with links to order and to the web site. I followed the links to the web site and was pleasantly surprised to see that the pages were up to date. May never know for sure, but it does seem like they heard us loud and clear.

[Empath]

Deleted - request for third party involvement was withdrawn.

Thanks Derek and Fasteddie.

[fasteddie]

Empath, thanks for the input. I'm a big boy. I'll get over it.

Surefire makes great lights, and now the batteries are cheap. I, for one, will continue to be a customer and a fan, whether or not I ever get my A2.

[Empath]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[Monsters_Inc]

All the cheers about SF customer service - well it seems the marketting department is no different. They're a top notch company with top notch people. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gman]

Thanks Derek.... It had been some time since I purchased a SF product. I had expanded out to several other lights and was recently marveling at the much improved quality of certain Asian products. That is, until I received my A2. I was once again reminded of how SF quality is, overall, at least an order of magnitude above any other I've seen. This is further re-enforced by my having been a ME, machinist and materials engineer in the past. Many people simply do not fully appreciate the materials and manufacturing processes that are required to attain such quality. Yes, SF products are expensive but the reasons are obvious to those
who understand whats involved from a design and manufacturing standpoint.

Your comment about how manufacturing in the USA "costs" is quite accurate also. My only complaint about SF (minor at that) would be the website needs more frequent updating and should be as comprehensive as possible.

[kimchikungfu]

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I would really like to see 100% water-proof SureFires, i.e. not just weather-resistant.

While I have your attention I have to comment on the thread too, although it seems more or less closed:

I think the comparison to Arc Flashlights and Peter Gransee's fantastic involvement here is somewhat irrelevant and unfair to SF. I say *think* because I don't have all the numbers or facts.

However, it seems to me that Arc has a substantial part of its customer base here at CPF. With SF that is not the case. So the business reasons to spend time posting at this forum are not as sound for SF as they are for Arc. Yes it's a cynical perspective, but every company exists to make a profit, don't forget that.

Some people would of course like to see manufacturers spend a lot of time here, but unfortunately that is not realistic.

Perhaps it is easy to get a bit spoiled because we are lucky enough to be part of one of the best forums on the internet.

In any case, I appreciate even the simplest announcements and do not expect any company representative to take part in the discussions here. If they do, it's a bonus, but I don't expect it.

I would like to give Derek a big thumbs up for the information provided and for taking time to comment on the responses.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Lars