PALights

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I do apologize for not reponding earlier to the many welcomes and useful comments from so many members. The reason is that I have been in Africa on family business and out of electronic communication (drums are no substitute!). But I am back now, and will watch this very helpful and friendly forum with interest.

To comment very briefly on the major points raised by members, we are constantly looking at improving PALights' qualities and appeal. The helpful suggestions are very much appreciated in helping us in this regard.

As for special prices for CPF members ~ certainly. We are getting enormous help and advice from members and it would be a pleasure to repay in some way for this. What would members consider is reasonable in this respect? As always, we are open to suggestions.

James (Meyer)
PALights

[lightlover]

See
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000030

for background to James's post.

Jahn

[mikep]

The new line of PALights has me a bit confused.

The 'selector' model is the one that used to be called the 'onestar'? Is that the model with a traditional 5mm LED?

What sort of LED is in the 'workman'- the kind that is in the 'survival'?

[MarcV]

Originally posted by James Meyer:
we are constantly looking at improving PALights' qualities and appeal.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why not a personalized PALight?

How about replacing the Onestar/USFlag card with a monogram card. The grandkids could each have a PALight with his/her very own initial embossed on the light. Or leave the inset card plain white as a platform for self-adhesive stickers or even write-and-erase paint pens the kids use.

[ARC mania]

Hello James,

It would be nice to have a Luxeon Star LED inside of your PALight with dimmer control in that small package. Also instead of using a 9 volt battery, use a CR123A lithium battery.

ARC mania

[leddite]

hee hee - suuuuuuuuuuuure, what would that do to the cost of the light and the cost to own?

the LED probably has a 10x or higher factor for parts... the batteries definitely 10x ($0.50 for 9v vs $5.00 based on local store costs)...

but the dimmer is a good idea :&gt; wait, we already HAVE that. whee.

Originally posted by ARC mania:
Hello James,

It would be nice to have a Luxeon Star LED inside of your PALight with dimmer control in that small package. Also instead of using a 9 volt battery, use a CR123A lithium battery.

ARC mania<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

[hank]

&gt;special prices

Consider using USPS shipping for CPF members? These little lights cost a lot less to send by US Mail.

Actual discounts also gratefully accepted of course!

You've probably figured out that there's plenty of interest in lights with potential for modifications, seconds, one-of-every-color. Whatever the designers and engineers in the back room have laying around or might want to experiment with could attract attention here.

I'd love one with a way to defeat the always-on feature, for earthquake storage. Let me pull out a plastic tab, add a jumper, turn a switch to restore the dim light feature when I will certainly be needing it, but not before.

[Al]

Suggestion: ... perhaps a que from CMG's upgrade of the Infinity ... doubled the output, and the result? Increased the popularity.

Seems that almost everyone is interested in "more bang for the buck" (brighter - BRIGhter - BRIGHTER). Perhaps the PALight's circuitry can be ECONOMICALLY tweaked to power some of the up and coming brighter leds without drastic changes to the unique Palight itself.

I personally agree with at least one suggestion made on these threads .. glass lens would be preferable. Would cost a bit more, but worth it. Or provide as an accessory to PALight owners?

[Kirk]

Hank,
When I got my first PALight it came with a piece of Scotch tape across the battery terminals with instructions to just push on both ends of the light (without opening it up) to break the tape and make the connections. Kind of simple yet elegant way to "defeat" the always on function and save the battery. If I ever make an earthquake kit, I'm going to do this.
Kirk

[Unforgiven]

It would be nice if the "always on" feature could be turned off. And as suggested above a more durable lense (Possibly interchangeable lenses for different beam patterns) and a brighter whiter LED. An interlocking mold on the case to better keep the halves together when pulling the light from your pocket would also be a plus.

[Saaby]

Maybe the PAL light could, some time in the future, have a fun model that would have built in filters. I think it'd be very possible with the current casing but I am not sure, something like filters activated by a lever on the outside of the case could work nicely.

[Darell]

Originally posted by James Meyer:
it would be a pleasure to repay in some way for this. What would members consider is reasonable in this respect? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Welcome back James.

I'm thinking that a free PAL sent to everybody who posts here would go over pretty well. images/icons/grin.gif

[sunspot]

built in filters.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Saaby. Are you thinking of getting that UK Combat Torch? There is a place in Miami, FL that sells them. I am working on maybe getting one for myself but I want more info first (cp or lux).

[Saaby]

Yeah...that and the Playskool light. I think because of the lens design of the PAL it could be done the same way it's done in spot lights--a little lever moves the filter from "rest" position if you will to a position in front of the beam of light, also if they could put in a highly transparent red, yellow, and blue, you could mix colors images/icons/grin.gif

[L.E.D.]

u guys should make some kind of luxeon star palights with an ultra-focused beam?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The Selector has the 5mm Nichia LED ~ and the Workman the surface mount, as the Survival. Names did change (OneStar to Selector, and Sure to Workman). Reason: As new managment, we felt Sure and OneStar were not meaningful names.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hank, Problem with USPS versus UPS is tracking and signing for ~ apart from USPS' extra charges for collecting from our factory. We wish to be able to track all deliveries and ensure we get a confirmation of deleivery. On balance we currently consider UPS has the advantage.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Marc, Persoanlized PALights ~ the idea appeals! However, at the risk of sounding negative, plain white cards have to have lamination coating or they would soon become grubby ~ and lamination prevents writing on. Metal might suffice for engraving, but would likely be expensive. But we do like the Persoanlized PALights idea.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi ARC mania,

Gee! I do seem to sound negative: We also like the Luxeon LED's ~ in fact we use them in our railroad signal lights we manufacture in Colorado. We are looking at this, but heat disipation and size of battery storage still are major hurdles for using these in pocket size flashlights. But we are looking carefully at it.

[sunspot]

Thanks for coming back James. That counts for a lot to me. Have you fixed your web site about that free shipping problem?
Have you considered a transparent color case to appeal to a younger group?

[Siriuslite]

I would like to see a completely waterproof model or one that could be submersed to about 10'. The Palight is a perfect light for marine applications because of its shape that prevents it from rolling around (most annoying) and also its long battery life and run time (important when your at sea) I would also like to see this model contain a small piece of closed cell foam or another means to make the light buoyant. These improvements would make the light a perfect device to strap to a life-jacket as a night time rescue aid. Another company produces a floating (with lithium batteries), water tight marine light but cost nearly 3 times as much as the Palight, and is full of functions you'd never really need in an emergency.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Al, "doubled the output, and the result? Increased the popularity." I am all for that! We need the buyers to achieve that, but fortunately we are having some marked success in this respect. Some way to go yet to 'doubled output'.

Yes, we are definitley looking at trading some of our ultra battery longevity for some increased brightness. But like all trade-offs, one needs to assess the downsides.

Glass lenses: would be perfect, but in our case, very expensive, not yet having the volume production needed to keep that cost from being prohibitive. In the meantime we have increased the 'eye-brow' protection and have specified a tougher lens material for our future production.

Kirk, We, in the west, spent millions on developing a pen that in space would write fluently, not leak and could be used whether facing upside or otherwise. The Russians had a tighter budget so instead used a pencil. The 'Fresh Start' as we used to call it did work fine, and like the pencil was simple.
I am sorry Hank finds the 'Always-on' intrusive, although he is not the only one. Shutting it off hardly saves any battery, so it must be the annoyance the soft glow causes. How about using a PALight holster ~ with the PALight facing down? Adding another mode to the 4 existing modes is not actually that simple.

Unforgiven, your idea of optional lenses also appeals. We have this, of course in the different lenses used in the Survival and Selector. More food for thought for us. Thanks

Darrell, How about a free PALight for everyone who submits an idea that is adopted by us for improvement of product or increase of sales?

Sunspot, Thanks. We have fixed the new website's S&H as far as the USA is concerned. Problem still exists with overseas S&H. We have to deal with each of those orders individually which is a sweat. If we had amazon.com's budget we could do it automatically.
I have actually seen an old PALight ~ before my time ~ that had a transparent case, so it is possible. Mind you, the light shone out where it shouldn't! images/icons/smile.gif

Reading this over, I seem to be negative on too many ideas. I do not mean to be. I relish new ideas. Please do keep them coming. In particular, how better to appeal to the fairer sex. PALights appeal to women once they uderstand it multi functions. Color cases? Bedroom pink? Vibrant red? Any suggestions?

[Quickbeam]

Color cases? Bedroom pink? Vibrant red? Any suggestions?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Purple. images/icons/smile.gif My spouse likes anything purple.

[sunspot]

I have actually seen an old PALight ~ before my time ~ that had a transparent case, so it is possible. Mind you, the light shone out where it shouldn't!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was thinking more on a colored transparent case. Yes there will be a spill but that is part of the cool factor. See the Eteralight Ergo X-ray but keep your nice grippy rubber. We have this, of course in the different lenses used in the Survival and Selector<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which one has the tighter and brighter beam?

[hank]

&gt;hardly saves any battery

Others have commented that after a couple of years or so, the battery is close to depleted.

I'd particularly like to leave PALights, with lithium 9-v cells, in earthquake kits. Those are the situations where the always-on battery drain is important - because when someone does grab that light, finding a fresh battery may not be easy. Think search and rescue when everything is dark and precarious.

I've settled on the new AA-Infinity for this purpose since I can get AA lithiums. But being able to turn ON the 'always on' feature when needed would be an argument for the PALight.

[Quickbeam]

Hank, Kirk mentioned this, above:

When I got my first PALight it came with a piece of Scotch tape across the battery terminals with instructions to just push on both ends of the light (without opening it up) to break the tape and make the connections. Kind of simple yet elegant way to "defeat" the always on function and save the battery. If I ever make an earthquake kit, I'm going to do this.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi siriuslite, We have a problem making the PALight waterproof simply because its case is in two halves, although to 10' I would expect it to function perfectly well.

However, when recently in the UK, I met with a great guy who runs a very innovative product company (http://www.aquapac.net/) and the company makes waterproof bags for small items such as cell phones, car keys, etc. These bags are designed to float. He really liked our PALight and would make a bag specially for us. He ships in the States largely through West Marine, so we are hoping to do things together in the future.

Thanks very much for the suggestion (worth a Marine Survival PALight Kit if we use your idea images/icons/smile.gif )

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Dana, the Survival has the tighter beam (the one I prefer) The 5mm in the Selector (and all 5mm colored LED's in the Survival) have the wider beam ~ for some reason preferred by the girls, possibly as it throws a more general light even if not as intense. Most view this as providing better personal security at nights ~ the 'Purse PALight'.

[MarcV]

Regarding personalizing, I was thinking along the lines of including a sheet of self-adhesive initials which the purchaser could clip and apply. It would require only a completely blank panel on your product; the personalizing would occur after purchase.

Vinyl appliques might work well, but I don't know how expensive they'd be to purchase.

[Darell]

Originally posted by James Meyer:
Darrell, How about a free PALight for everyone who submits an idea that is adopted by us for improvement of product or increase of sales?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That sounds like a fair offer. And look what I have right here on the tip of my tongue: An idea that is SURE to increase sales if implemented. Ready?

Lower the retail cost!

Because I'm in a generous mood, you can have that one for free. And no, I don't have a business degree - these flashes of brilliance just come to me.

Sorry. Really. It is great to have you here, actively participating on the board. I'll just go ahead and smack my self, and we can get back down to business.

BTW, a purple-cased light would sell really well in my household as well, and I also like the idea of swapping strobe mode for dark mode.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by MarcV:

How difficult would it be to change the STROBE mode to DARK mode? I, for one, would prefer that. I'd still cycle to the ALWAYS-ON mode, but would not suffer the stress of 'beating the strobe flash' while cycling past it.

I'll check with 'R&D' ~ thanks fot that thought

Hi Hank, Give me your thoughts on this: lithium 9-v cells cost well over twice that of the premium battery we use ~ yet only gives about 50% more battery life, Great in very cold situations where lithium 9-v cells are at times a necessity ~ but financially a good investment in more temperate climes??? Right now we have opted to fit with the premium batteries, Energizer and Duracell.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Darrell ~ welcome aboard the marketing division images/icons/smile.gif

OK ~ here's the rub: we sell over 40% through catalogs, most of which buy extensively from us and retail the Survival around $20. I would be delighted to sell around $15/$16 but these big buyers will drop us like hot bricks if we do it now. As we say in Africa where I swung down from the trees: "Slowly, slowly, catcha monkey!" It will happen ~ but slowly.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Darrell ~ we need to take the catalog companies and dealers along with us on any moves we make price-wise ~ they are our bread and butter, and most supported us throughout our difficult beginnings. Early next year should see some reductions, especially as we have achieved quite significant savings in production costs because of our parallel production of LED railroad signal lights.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Just off to NY and then to our railroad division in Colorado ~ working while you all have a great long weekend! Back next Thursday, and will catch up with any rude and quite unjustified insults then images/icons/smile.gif

All, have a great Labor Day, James

[MarcV]

Originally posted by James Meyer:

I am sorry Hank finds the 'Always-on' intrusive, although he is not the only one. Shutting it off hardly saves any battery, so it must be the annoyance the soft glow causes.Adding another mode to the 4 existing modes is not actually that simple.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How difficult would it be to change the STROBE mode to DARK mode? I, for one, would prefer that. I'd still cycle to the ALWAYS-ON mode, but would not suffer the stress of 'beating the strobe flash' while cycling past it.

[poalcat]

Mr. Meyer,

Your presence on this forum has already resulted in at least one sale. I ordered a Survival earlier this morning. It will be my 1st LED. I'm looking forward to seeing what it's like!

Welcome to CPF!

[Stainless]

James:
Please add one more vote for the Purple color. I've already given three different flashlights to a lady friend... just because they were purple. She was thrilled - go figure. Swapping strobe mode for dark mode sounds like a GREAT idea. Perhaps raise the protective rim around the switch a bit to further reduce chance of accidental activation, include the 30 minute auto shutoff just in case it does happen... supply with your current battery; and plainly state in your advertizments and enclosed instructions that the LIGHT IS "RATED FOR" USE WITH LITHIUMS. Average consumers may not know or care what a Lithium battery is, but professionals stocking real survival kits (and flashaholics) would not have a problem finding and paying for the vastly more expensive Lithium battery.

[Saaby]

James, if possible--how about an internal dip switch that would allow the choice of strobe of "off"

Don't know how easy or hard or cheap or expensive it'd be, but it'd be very cool.

[Stainless]

James:
P.S. If you want to sell to the ladies... one word: "purseproof". Your product is already properly sized to fit in a purse, just make sure that it won't turn on accidentally; and the real challenge - find some way to protect the lens from the ultra-abrasive environment of nail files etc.

[hank]

&gt;lithiums

Yep, don't ship with them, they are special use.

DO check the battery compartment size, someone earlier posted that some lithium 9v brand can get stuck in the opening -- they vary slightly by brand. One common brand is sold for smoke alarms -- see "longlifebatteries.com" -- and I think Everready's page has exact sizes for several different models they sell.

People who go mountain climbing or camping in freezing weather need lithium. So do people setting up longterm storage -- first aid etc.

[STC]

Hello James. Yet another heartfelt thanks for braving the perils of our random thoughts.. My first Pals were given as gifts until I read about reversing the lens for a flood beam - now a Gold perches on my shoulder as a favored reading light
Hmmm....reading light version.......clips to back of book ....flexible stalk.....
One of your lights also serves as favorite toy for my 2 year old granddaughter...does double duty as naptime bribe and soft neoprene teething device....if it cannot be destroyed by a 2 year old....
WAIT....soft, babysafe, PURPLE, in the shape of... images/icons/rolleyes.gif Nah. You wouldn't dare.. images/icons/grin.gif
There may be a market for new parents though...they are easy to find in the crib, safe, indestructable,low power for checking the kid without awakening..
Yep. Just talked myself into getting a couple more.
Steve

[Max]

Originally posted by Al:
Suggestion: ... perhaps a que from CMG's upgrade of the Infinity ... doubled the output, and the result? Increased the popularity.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm going to have to agree here. Whether you increase light output by overdriving the LED or by adding more of them, I think people will like that a lot.

When you think about it, you've already got a dimmer in there. People who are worried about battery life are still able to use the lower output. People who want more light, can just crank it up, knowing that they have chosen to make that tradeoff.

If a PALight can stay in high beam mode for 20 hrs, then I'll bet there is room to trade off some run time for increased intensity. As long as you don't end up with a light that is "really bright" for 15 minutes, and then only "sorta bright" for another 6 hrs, I'll bet most users will appreciate the available extra intensity. If your light lasted a good solid 4hrs in high intensity mode, I still wouldn't go through more than a couple batteries a year.

Another idea. This is purely marketing shtick. You've got a light that's functional and fits in the hand sort of like a garage remote. Why not do something extra snazzy with the shape/material of the package. For example, what if it looked like a Star Trek phaser, or something?

I liked the idea of the translucent packaging. How about an outer packaging made of silicone like those funky watch bands? How about some super-ergonomic hand-molding kind of shape?

How about making a metal-clad version with a kind of smooth solid heft to it? Like a kind of executive desk paperweight?

[Siriuslite]

Last week I received my 1st Palight (note "1st"). My verdict - there is virtually nothing I would change! I love this light. I was surprised at the intensity of the light in the high beam mode. It easily surpassed many other single LED lights that I have seen or own.

Anyway, getting back to my suggestion regarding water proofing, I took a look at the Aquapac cases and think they could work great. The only thing I'd like to see added to the cases to make them work well in a marine environment is a retractable cable reel and a carabineer. This would allow you to attach the light to an article of clothing (pant belt loop, life jacket, etc...) without fear of losing it . There's no point of going overboard only to watch your light (emergency beacon) floating away from you. Also, the retractable cord would allow you to use the light when needed and then slink away, always within reach when not needed. The retractable cord could also be handy attached to the Palight itself (outside of the waterproof bag)


I quickly put together a picture to show what it could look like.

web page (http://www.siriuslite.com/aquapac.htm)

p.s. If people are chosing colours (sic), Marine yellow of course.

[poalcat]

Siriuslite -

Ditto. I got my PALight (Survival) last week as well, and I'm delighted with it. I keep it next to my bed at night, and because of its "always on" glow, I can instantly locate it if I need it (this feature is important for me because I have night blindness.) The soft beam can then be used so the light doesn't stun my eyes. I'm also impressed with the intensity of the high beam. It is bright. I chose the white LED. I thought the slightly bluish tint would bother me, but instead it simply makes the light more interesting and pleasing. This light has turned out to be one of the most practical ones I have ever owned.

[Stainless]

James:
I would like to "second" comments by MAX regarding the "Star-Trek Phazer" shape. Of course you could not copy Star-trek too closely, but anything even remotely similar could have some SERIOUS visual appeal. It would take some clever engineering to create a case which was neat AND cost effective... but one more option to consider. Maybe even add a solid state siren for personal security application.
P.S. My Pal is the only light that I use every single day. (actually night)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Back again... will reply later today to latest contributors ~ who I thank for your thoughts and comments, James

[KenB]

Is it possible to make the allways on feature light the button up...maybe red?

Ken

[KenB]

The way I see it they have several things going for them.

9 volts...gives them some over head, regulation wise.

Allways on feature...not found on to many others.

Multi brightness levels...some others do.

But:

Some feel they are not as bright as others and the beam is to narrow.

As a marine...light is this a good choice?

Will changing case colors improve sales?

Are you willing to spend money to make this 9 volt light design competative against the current, future market.

My opinion: put a LS (not 350 mill amps, just enough to be brighter than the others) and glass lens in there a bump the price up to cover the actual additional cost...whatever that my be. I think sales would be strong.

Ken

[Siriuslite]

KenB raised some issues that I would like to address

1. They are not as bright as others.

- I'm not sure how old the Palight is or which model you have, but in a side by side comparison, my newly acquired Palight Survival is much brighter than my Arc-AAA (could be because of the lens though)

2. The beam is to narrow for many.

- This is strictly a personal preference issue. I like the tightness of the beam. I heard (unofficially) that if you reverse the lens, it will become a flood light. So maybe making the lens user friendly to reverse for desired beam effect might be an option that can be added.

3. As marine light...is this a good pick even if water proof?

- Definitely yes. As someone who sails, the battery life of any product is very important. (No 7-11's floating by to pick up more when they run out). I like the fact that you can pick up a 9 volt anywhere (marinas, dock stores), as opposed to lithium's. Also if you need to do work in the dark, its nice having a light that you can put down and won't roll around with the waves.

4. Do you think changing case colors will make this competative?

- On this point I agree. After the initial popularity of the i-mac and its 5 base colours, adding more later on did nothing to increase sales for Apple. I'll bet that basic black is the best seller.

5. Are you willing to spend money to compete in todays rapid changing LED market on this 9 volt design?
- I couldn't find anyone while searching on the internet who also makes a simple 9 volt flashlight. Other manufacturers to get voltages this high either use multiple batteries, expensive lithium's or imploy special circuitry to boost output (thus shortening run time). In a way, there is no competition.

6. My opinion...if I wanted to keep the 9 volt design alive as we move through the 2003~4~5`s, I would find a way to put a LS in there (not at 350 ml-amps...just enough to give it an edge).

- At this time, adding a LS to the light would surely increase its cost and reduce the overall run time. These are the areas where the Palight succeeds against all others. Perhaps carrying 2 lines, Palight regular ($20) and Palight LS ($40?) would satisfy all camps.

[MarcV]

The lens is already "user friendly" to reverse. Try it. It slips out easily with finger pressure and slips back in just as securely.

The PALight has, in my mind, two unique properties. You can find it in the dark because it is always on. It is a lens platform.

The lens platform idea deserves some additional consideration. Earlier suggestions called for some kind of interchangeable color filters. But how about a focusable spot, either by swapping out lenses or by a movable lens? Swapping out lenses probably makes more sense, since you aren't likely to need to refocus frequently, and since it would be easy to implement simply by providing an accessory kit of lenses. Those things are probably very cheap to make once the (very) expensive molds are finished.